Author: Chris Carson
Date: 09:18:42 07/08/02
Go up one level in this thread
On July 08, 2002 at 11:32:38, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On July 08, 2002 at 00:32:42, Christophe Theron wrote: > >>On July 06, 2002 at 20:15:06, stuart taylor wrote: >> >>> >>>> >>>>I suspect that search may see that the right move help to push the opponent king >>>>closer to the corner relative to the wrong moves and it may be enough. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>Yes, that looks like the best thing to try and work on, doesn't it? >>> >>>If not, can I ask two questions?: >>>1)What should be done during the near future to push computer elo forward as >>>much as possible? >>>2)If Deeper blue was really much stronger than todays tops, what was that due >>>to? Better long-term planning? Seeing deeper? >>>S.Taylor >> >> >>Huge speed. >> >>It was doing most things worse than the best micro programs, but it was doing it >>so fast that it was eventually stronger. >> >>Hum... Let me rephrase for the sensitive people out there. There was nothing >>Deep Blue did better than the best micro programs. But it was so fast that it >>allowed it to hide its defficiencies. >> >>Shit. That's not very diplomatic either. Let's try again: Deep Blue was build >>around a concept outdated by 2 decades but fortunately it was so fast that >>nobody noticed until their creators published their paper. >> >>Oops... OK, once again: >> >>Bob likes Deep Blue a lot, and that should be a reason good enough to convince >>you that it was well designed. >> >> >> >> Christophe ;-) > > >Er... excepting one game by Fritz in 1995, when was the last time you saw >any micro beat any predecessor of deep blue? When was the last time _your_ >program beat or drew them? Etc... > >Results speak far louder than prejudice... Well, I am a fan of DB. It was a great piece of work. Hsu deserves a lot of credit. It won a match against the Human World Chess Champ. TThat is the only good result for Deep Blue, Deep Thought did more. However there are some other results that also should be mentioned by objective people. DeepBlue lost the World Computer Chess Championship to Fritz 3 in 1995 (losing to Fritz 3 and a draw to Wchess, beat Rebel). DeepBlue never won a World Computer Chess Championship (WCCC). Deep Thought did in 1989. Chess Machine (Rebel) won in 1992 and Shredder in 1999. See: http://www.mark-weeks.com/chess/wcc-comp.htm DeepBlue scored 3.5/5 in the 1995 WCCC for third place (it did not even play Chess Genius or Junior), hardly a dominating performance/result in it's only/last public/fair match/tournament against the PC's. After 1995, Deep Blue did not play the pc's in a public tournament/match, it did play them in some closet somewhere, but the programmers of the PC's had no input for opening books, settings, learning, ect. The DB programmers were present so DB had every possible advantage. Not a fair showing in my opinion. It would be fair if the PC programmers were involved in the match, they were not. So we will never know how DB would do in a fair, public match/tournament against the PC programs. We only have the 1995 results for DB 3.5 overall, and aginst the top PC programs = 1 win, 1 draw, 1 loss, 2 programs not played. To boast about results means that you must play the games, not just boast about raw speed. DB was fast, blazing fast, but it did not beat the top programs in public competition with their programmers running the PC programs.
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