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Subject: Re: What made Deep blue good? What will make programs much better now?

Author: Chris Carson

Date: 11:11:01 07/08/02

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On July 08, 2002 at 14:04:16, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On July 08, 2002 at 11:36:09, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On July 08, 2002 at 06:25:57, Daniel Clausen wrote:
>>
>>>On July 08, 2002 at 02:28:03, Slater Wold wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 08, 2002 at 00:32:42, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 06, 2002 at 20:15:06, stuart taylor wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I suspect that search may see that the right move help to push the opponent king
>>>>>>>closer to the corner relative to the wrong moves and it may be enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes, that looks like the best thing to try and work on, doesn't it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If not, can I ask two questions?:
>>>>>>1)What should be done during the near future to push computer elo forward as
>>>>>>much as possible?
>>>>>>2)If Deeper blue was really much stronger than todays tops, what was that due
>>>>>>to? Better long-term planning? Seeing deeper?
>>>>>>S.Taylor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Huge speed.
>>>>>
>>>>>It was doing most things worse than the best micro programs, but it was doing it
>>>>>so fast that it was eventually stronger.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hum... Let me rephrase for the sensitive people out there. There was nothing
>>>>>Deep Blue did better than the best micro programs. But it was so fast that it
>>>>>allowed it to hide its defficiencies.
>>>>>
>>>>>Shit. That's not very diplomatic either. Let's try again: Deep Blue was build
>>>>>around a concept outdated by 2 decades but fortunately it was so fast that
>>>>>nobody noticed until their creators published their paper.
>>>>>
>>>>>Oops... OK, once again:
>>>>>
>>>>>Bob likes Deep Blue a lot, and that should be a reason good enough to convince
>>>>>you that it was well designed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Christophe  ;-)
>>>>
>>>>I too am a DB fan.  Just like Bob.
>>>>
>>>>But I actually agree with you here.  I don't think DB did anything
>>>>*spectacular*.
>>>>
>>>>But I also know that Program X will be a _LOT_ stronger on hardware 100,000x
>>>>times faster than anyone else has.  No matter how horrible the software side is.
>>>
>>>Sheesh, you guys! Of course they did something spectacular! But it's the
>>>software/hardware package that plays chess, not just the software alone! And
>>>they didn't buy the hardware around the corner, as you do with your PC. They
>>>designed it!
>>>
>>>It's obvious that you guys seem to honour work in the software more than work in
>>>the hardware. Adding feature X in the software is something great, but designing
>>>DB's hardware which was Y time faster (Y being 200 and more) is "just faster
>>>hardware". A bit unfair. :)
>>>
>>>Sargon
>>
>>
>>OOhhhhh...  a good "counterpoint".  But it will fall on deaf ears, I
>>predict.  After all, DB was inferior in every way except for speed and
>>results.  And we all know results don't mean a thing..  it is _how_ you get
>>those results that count...  At least to some, apparently...
>
>
>
>I think that in order to be objective one has to notice that:
>
>1) Deep Blue was a terrific hardware that has been able to achieve an historical
>performance.
>
>2) On closer examination the algorithms used were not superior than the ones
>used in micro programs.
>
>I have repeated 1 and 2 several times now. I think I should move on to more
>productive tasks.
>
>
>
>    Christophe

Convinced me.  :)  When Chess Tiger gets to be 200M nps (Chess Tiger nps that
is), no human will win a single game!  :)



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