Author: martin fierz
Date: 21:13:29 07/26/02
Go up one level in this thread
On July 26, 2002 at 22:45:57, Slater Wold wrote: >On July 26, 2002 at 18:14:08, Dieter Buerssner wrote: > >>On July 26, 2002 at 16:55:27, Slater Wold wrote: >> >>>On July 26, 2002 at 14:53:33, Dieter Buerssner wrote: >>> >>>>On July 26, 2002 at 00:54:10, Slater Wold wrote: >>>> >>>>>8/pR4pk/1b2p3/2p3p1/N1p5/7P/PP1r2P1/6K1 b - - 0 31 >>>>> >>>>>The only move to make here is Rxb2. The win is only about 10 moves away, and >>>>>while some programs I tested find Rxb2, none have an impressive score. And >>>>>that's *if* they find it. >>>> >>>>What would be an impressive score? > >According to several GMs, Rxb2 is a forced win. then again, several GMs can be wrong :-) >The win is a bit deeper than the first position. I would be impressed by a >*correct* PV and any score, but a little dismayed with a 0.50 score. Anything >+1.50 or so would impress me. > >>You cited everything, but you did not answer my question. >> >>>>Is this won for black? I cannot see it ... >>>Both postions are confirmed wins for black after Rxb2. >>> >>>One is deep and one is deeper. >> >>Cann you please show a sample (or even a convincing) winning line in the second >>position after > >This was the annotation of the game (of the 2nd position): > >Tylkowski - Wojciechowski, Poznan City Championship, 1931 >1.f4 d5 2.e3 c5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Bb5 Bg4 5.O-O e6 6.d3 Be7 7.Nc3 d4 8.Nb1 Nf6 9.e4 >O-O 10.Bxc6 bxc6 11.c3 dxc3 12.Nxc3 Bxf3 13.Rxf3 Ng4 14.Kh1 Qd4 15.Qg1 Qxg1+ >16.Kxg1 Bd8 17.Be3 Nxe3 18.Rxe3 Bb6 19.Rd1 h6 20.e5 f6 21.exf6 Rxf6 22.Rf3 c4+ >23.d4 c5 24.d5 exd5 25.Rxd5 Kh7 26.Rd7 Rd8 27.Rb7 Rg6 28.Rg3 Rxg3 29.hxg3 Rd2 >30.Na4 (see diagram) >30...Rxb2 31.Nxb2 c3 32.Rxb6 c4 33.Rb4 a5 34.Nxc4 c2 Without support on the >fourth rank, 34.Rxc4 cxb2 35.a4 b1=Q+ etc. is pointless. 35.Nxa5 c1Q+ 36.Kh2 Qc5 >37.Rb2 (37.Ra4? Qh5+ and Qd1+, winning the rook, or 37.Rb3 Qxa5 38.a3? Qh5+ to >the same effect, but after 37.Rb3 followed by Rf3, it is not entirely clear how >Black will undo the fortress.) 37...Qxa5 38.g4 Qe1 39.g3 h5 40.gxh5 Kh6 and >after 15 more moves, White resigned. The black King will now reach g4 and f3. > >It is regarded by several GM to be the "only move". > >>30...Rxb2 31. Nxb2 c3 32. Rxb6 c4 33. Rb4 >> >>Regards, >>Dieter what is wrong with 33.Nxc4 c2 34. Rc6 c1=Q+ 35. Kh2 instead of 33.Rb4? do you have anything on that too? my personal belief is that the position looks ghastly for white there, but computers know no fear - and i don't see any way black can win that. aloha martin
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