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Subject: Re: Easy & Hard

Author: Slater Wold

Date: 15:24:14 07/27/02

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On July 27, 2002 at 15:00:26, Dieter Buerssner wrote:

>On July 26, 2002 at 22:45:57, Slater Wold wrote:
>
>>On July 26, 2002 at 18:14:08, Dieter Buerssner wrote:
>>
>>>On July 26, 2002 at 16:55:27, Slater Wold wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 26, 2002 at 14:53:33, Dieter Buerssner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 26, 2002 at 00:54:10, Slater Wold wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>8/pR4pk/1b2p3/2p3p1/N1p5/7P/PP1r2P1/6K1 b - - 0 31
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The only move to make here is Rxb2.  The win is only about 10 moves away, and
>>>>>>while some programs I tested find Rxb2, none have an impressive score.  And
>>>>>>that's *if* they find it.
>>>>>
>>>>>What would be an impressive score?
>>
>>According to several GMs, Rxb2 is a forced win.
>>
>>The win is a bit deeper than the first position.  I would be impressed by a
>>*correct* PV and any score, but a little dismayed with a 0.50 score.  Anything
>>+1.50 or so would impress me.
>
>Your comment about the impressive score was for the first (the easy) position,
>and so was my question. It seems, your answer is about the second position. But
>anyway, you say, "with a correct PV". Which would be a correct PV in the second
>position? Unfortunately, I made a stupid error in my post, and have shown the
>wrong line. Yace actually shows after about one minute the line, that Martin has
>commented. But Even when following the line, it cannot find anything decisive
>with a very long think (score stays around 1/2 pawn).
>
>For the first position, Yace actually needs longer than for the second position
>- as Ikarus did, too:
>
>   3620823  35.291   1.12 11t  31...Rd6 32. Kf1 Kg6 33. Ke2 e5 34. Nc3 g4 35.
>                               hxg4 Rd4 36. Na4 Rd6 {90}
>   3955498  38.488   1.13 11t+ 31...Kg6 32. Nxb6 Rxb2 33. Rxa7 Rb1+ 34. Kh2 c3
>                               35. Nc4 c2 36. Ne5+ Kh6 37. a3 c1=Q 38. Ra5
>                               {741}
>   5847509  57.593   1.13 11t  31...Kg6 32. Kf1 e5 33. Rb8 Rd6 34. Rc8H Rd1+H
>                               35. Ke2H Rg1H 36. Kf3H Ra1H 37. Nc3H {170}
>   9991399  1:37.2   1.13 11.  31...Kg6 32. Kf1 e5 33. Rb8 Rd6 34. Rc8 Rd1+
>                               35. Ke2 Rg1 36. Kf3 Ra1 37. Nc3 {170}
>  12581628  2:02.4   1.13 12t  31...Kg6 32. Kf1 e5 33. Rb8 Rd6 34. Ke2 Kf7 35.
>                               Rc8 Ke6 36. Re8+ Kf5 37. Rc8 Rd5 {170}
>  16141741  2:34.6   1.14 12t+ 31...Rxb2 32. Nxb2 c3 33. Rxb6 c4 34. Rb4 a5
>                               35. Nxc4 c2 36. Kf2 c1=Q 37. Ra4 Qc2+ 38. Kg1
>                               {241}
>  16634970  2:38.7   1.53 12++ 31...Rxb2 32. Nxb2 c3 33. Rxb6 c4 34. Rb4 a5
>                               35. Nxc4 c2 36. Rb5 c1=Q+ 37. Kh2 Qxc4 38. Rxa5
>                               {501}
>  18834092  2:58.1   2.53 12++ 31...Rxb2 32. Nxb2 c3 33. Rxb6 c4 34. Rb4 a5
>                               35. Nxc4 c2 36. Rb5 c1=Q+ 37. Kh2 Qxc4 38. Rxa5
>                               {501}
>  21306009  3:20.2   2.81 12t  31...Rxb2 32. Nxb2 c3 33. Rxb6 c4 34. Nxc4 c2
>                               35. Rc6 c1=Q+ 36. Kh2 Qf4+ 37. Kg1 Qe4 38. Rc8
>                               Qb1+ 39. Kh2 Qxa2 40. Ne5 {321}
>  21691941  3:23.8   2.81 12.  31...Rxb2 32. Nxb2 c3 33. Rxb6 c4 34. Nxc4 c2
>                               35. Rc6 c1=Q+ 36. Kh2 Qf4+ 37. Kg1 Qe4 38. Rc8
>                               Qb1+ 39. Kh2 Qxa2 40. Ne5 {321}
>  28528422  4:22.7   2.96 13t  31...Rxb2 32. Nxb2 c3 33. Rxb6 c4 34. Nxc4 c2
>                               35. Rc6 c1=Q+ 36. Kh2 Qf4+ 37. Kg1 Qe4 38. Rc7
>                               Qb1+ 39. Kf2 Qxa2+H {HT} {321}
>  30064153  4:36.9   2.96 13.  31...Rxb2 32. Nxb2 c3 33. Rxb6 c4 34. Nxc4 c2
>                               35. Rc6 c1=Q+ 36. Kh2 Qf4+ 37. Kg1 Qe4 38. Rc7
>                               Qb1+ 39. Kf2 Qxa2+ {HT} {321}
>  38691688  5:50.5   2.98 14t  31...Rxb2 32. Nxb2 c3 33. Rxb6 c4 34. Nxc4 c2
>                               35. Rc6 c1=Q+ 36. Kh2 Qf4+ 37. Kh1 Qe4 38. Rc5
>                               Qe1+H {HT} {241}
>  43121283  6:30.9   2.98 14.  31...Rxb2 32. Nxb2 c3 33. Rxb6 c4 34. Nxc4 c2
>                               35. Rc6 c1=Q+ 36. Kh2 Qf4+ 37. Kh1 Qe4 38. Rc5
>                               Qe1+ {HT} {241}
>
>For the second position:
>
>   3262901  31.548  -0.08 12t  29...c3 30. bxc3 Rxa2 31. Nxb6 axb6 32. f5 Ra3
>                               33. f6 Kg6 34. fxg7 Kh7 35. c4 Rxg3 36. Kf2
>                               {HT} {0}
>   7621434  1:15.8  -0.07 12t+ 29...Rxb2 30. Nxb2 c3 31. Rxb6 c4 32. Rb4 a5
>                               33. Nd3 cxd3 34. Rc4 c2 35. Ra4 c1=Q+ 36. Kf2
>                               {501}
>   8352119  1:22.1   0.35 12t  29...Rxb2 30. Nxb2 c3 31. Rxb6 c4 32. Nxc4 c2
>                               33. Rc6 {HT} {-840}
>   8561630  1:24.0   0.35 12.  29...Rxb2 30. Nxb2 c3 31. Rxb6 c4 32. Nxc4 c2
>                               33. Rc6 {HT} {-840}
>  10431029  1:39.7   0.39 13t  29...Rxb2 30. Nxb2 c3 31. Rxb6 c4 32. Nxc4 c2
>                               33. Rc6 c1=Q+ 34. Kh2 Qd1 35. Rc5 Qc2 36. a3 a5
>                               37. g4 {HT} {81}
>  12137590  1:57.5   0.39 13.  29...Rxb2 30. Nxb2 c3 31. Rxb6 c4 32. Nxc4 c2
>                               33. Rc6 c1=Q+ 34. Kh2 Qd1 35. Rc5 Qc2 36. a3 a5
>                               37. g4 {HT} {81}
>  16662129  2:42.5   0.42 14t  29...Rxb2 30. Nxb2 c3 31. Rxb6 c4 32. Nxc4 c2
>                               33. Rc6 c1=Q+ 34. Kh2 Qd1 35. Rc5 Qc2 36. a3 a5
>                               37. a4 g5 {81}
>  19940315  3:13.1   0.42 14.  29...Rxb2 30. Nxb2 c3 31. Rxb6 c4 32. Nxc4 c2
>                               33. Rc6 c1=Q+ 34. Kh2 Qd1 35. Rc5 Qc2 36. a3 a5
>                               37. a4 g5 {81}
>
>All on K6-2 475
>
>Regards,
>Dieter

On a dual AMD 1.73Ghz using Crafty 18.15, the score for the 2nd position is
actually -1.44.  Which to me is impressive.



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