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Subject: Re: Are we comparing Apples to oranges or....

Author: Otello Gnaramori

Date: 11:44:43 08/01/02

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On August 01, 2002 at 14:02:22, Chris Carson wrote:

>On August 01, 2002 at 12:57:06, Otello Gnaramori wrote:
>
>>On August 01, 2002 at 11:58:46, Chris Carson wrote:
>>
>>>On August 01, 2002 at 11:47:35, GuyHaworth wrote:
>>>
>>>>Did Hiarcs do enough to earn a GM norm, had it been carbon rather than silicon?
>>>>
>>>>Does FIDE acknowledge such achievements, or not?
>>>>
>>>>How can Hiarcs (or any engine) accumulate norms over time ... by proving that it
>>>>is the same program that accumulated the previous norms ... given that ...
>>>>
>>>>Hardware/software combinations have a habit of evolving and might ... to quote a
>>>>phrase ... go down as well as up.
>>>>
>>>>g
>>>
>>>GM norms are only for humans.  FIDE will not allow any computer to play in FIDE
>>>sanctioned events.  Tiger, Junior, Fritz, Hiarcs, Rebel and the King all have
>>>very good (2600 and 2700, norm strength) results.
>>>
>>>SW Versions and HW are important.  The SSDF list is a very good reference and
>>>Tony's page provides Human vs Computer results as well.
>>
>>
>>Dear Chris,
>>I'm back in the forum after a long absence.
>>I was wondering if in this long discussed debate are we just comparing apples to
>>oranges ( as many people think) or are we hitting against the human proudness
>>that doesn't admit to be beaten by a piece of "hot silicon" running at tot Ghz.
>>
>>My Best,
>>Otello
>
>Apples to apples.  Chess is Chess.  Human performance vs machines or other
>people is measurable.
>
>Human proudness can account for some of the resistance to factual data
>(irrational beliefs).  However, there is another dynamic at work.  Some people
>rely on "research" funding and money is a strong motivator.  Money can be a
>motivator to overstate chess program skill (let the buyer beware) and can also
>be a motivator to understate chess program skill (it is harder to get "research"
>funding for your pet project if computer chess skill is above a certain level).
>Another motivator I have seen in this debate is that of loyalty to friends.
>Program/HW/ASIC X is the best ever and nothing will ever be better because my
>friend created it, thus all other chess programs/HW must be shown to be sub-par.
>
>One last motivator is that some people just like to argue.  They have a need for
>human conversation/contact and are willing to argue (troll) to get it.
>
>Chris

Thanks for your answer.
As usual I find myself to be in agreement with you almost 100%.
I've said "almost" otherwise other people can suspect that we are the same
person... :)

w.b.r.
Otello




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