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Subject: Re: What do programs do more often(sacrifice or blunder)?

Author: Marc van Hal

Date: 03:23:31 08/14/02

Go up one level in this thread


On August 13, 2002 at 16:09:53, Uri Blass wrote:

>On August 13, 2002 at 15:18:04, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On August 13, 2002 at 07:23:38, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>My definition for a sacrifice or blunder
>>>is a move that lose material based on
>>>the depth that programs can see.
>>>
>>>The definition of losing material is based on
>>>the material values 1,3,3,5,9.
>>
>>with all respect but your table is outdated in advance.
>>
>>  a) 2 rooks are weaker than a queen in 99.9% of all cases
>>     the computer sees 2 rooks for a queen
>
>It is not the case based on experience with movei but I still evaluate
>queen as almost 2 rooks(difference of less than 0.5 pawn).
>
>I evaluate queen as about 10 and rook as slightly more than 5.
>
>>  b) this table indicates that giving away 2 pieces for a rook+pawn
>>     is great
>
>I know and I evaluate bishop or knight as about 3.5 in movei(I cannot give exact
>value because the evaluation is based on the square of the piece and I have 64
>values for every piece based on the square but I still call it a sacrifice if a
>program to give 2 pieces for rook and 2 pawns).
>
>
>
>For m
>>  c) giving away a piece for 3 pawns is great according to this
>>     table, especially if we know that one of the 3 pawns gets
>>     a passer
>
>I evaluate 3 pawns as less than a piece in movei.
>
>You also assume here that 1 is for a pawn that is not a passed pawn.
>It is possible to assume that 1 is the average value of the pawn and in that
>case pawns that are not passed pawns are evaluated as less than 1.
>>
>>So the definition is not correct!
>>
>>In diep queen = 11.5 pawns
>>        rook  =  5.5 pawns
>>        piece =  3.6 pawns
>>
>>and i have special cases to catch weird cases which sometimes happen.
>>
>>>For a clear definition we need to compare
>>>the evaluation of a program with mainly material evaluation before and after the
>>>move when we give it an hour to search.
>>>
>>>A program with mainly material evaluation is defined to be
>>>a program with positional scores
>>>that are always smaller than 0.5 pawns.
>>
>>again a wrong assumption. Some very old
>>programs (like some at dedicated machine) have like 2 extra
>>rules in evaluation which always is like "if passer on 2nd row
>>then score += 3.0"
>
>In that case they have big positional scores so I can say that they sacrificed.
>I think that this bonus is not justified.
>
>Movei still does not evaluate passed pawns but inspite of this fact it is at
>similiar level to some programs that evaluate passed pawns like amateur.
>
>I can see cases when movei wins when it seems to me that the evaluation of the
>opponent for passed pawns is too high.
>
>>
>>In short especially a few very materialistic beancounters are tuned
>>to very high scores, whereas others with loads of chess knowledge
>>usually are more relaxed in this respect.
>
>I did not say that programs with more knowledge sacrifice more material.
>
>Uri


By increasing the valeu of a pawn it is more likely a piece will be sacreficed!
Marc



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