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Subject: Re: What do programs do more often(sacrifice or blunder)?

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 05:48:38 08/14/02

Go up one level in this thread


On August 14, 2002 at 07:21:54, Bas Hamstra wrote:

>On August 14, 2002 at 06:43:31, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On August 14, 2002 at 05:37:32, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>>
>>>On August 13, 2002 at 15:18:04, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 13, 2002 at 07:23:38, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>My definition for a sacrifice or blunder
>>>>>is a move that lose material based on
>>>>>the depth that programs can see.
>>>>>
>>>>>The definition of losing material is based on
>>>>>the material values 1,3,3,5,9.
>>>>
>>>>with all respect but your table is outdated in advance.
>>>>
>>>>  a) 2 rooks are weaker than a queen in 99.9% of all cases
>>>>     the computer sees 2 rooks for a queen
>>>
>>>With all the respect master, but this is an ancient point of view that does not
>>>hold for computerchess at all. Two rooks can capture an isolated pawn and one
>>>sole queen cannot prevent that. I say it's about even. Try to play an endgame
>>>with a queen versus 2 rooks, with Diep against Tiger or Gandalf.
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>Bas.
>>
>>I do not think that this is an ancient point of view(the opposite and the
>>opinion is a new opinion that I find to be wrong).
>
>I see. That way you disagree with Vincent AND me, although we have opposing
>opinions. Typical :-)

You are of course not educated in chess theory. In dutch we have the word
'randdebiel' for your opinion.

Uri's viewpoint is very clear. He has queen=10 and rook=5.

The beginner books say all queen = 9 and rook = 5.

The titled players like
me are so convinced that a queen is much stronger than any other piece
that they always want a queen. Same is true for beginners they are
so busy moving with 1 piece that they focus completely upon it and simply
games get decided before any move rook has been done.

That's why beginners books mention queen = 9 and rook = 5 , simply to
show that bringing into play the pieces is important.

By the way the same beginner books use a quote from Max Euwe regarding
kings in the endgame. It says a king is worth a rook in the endgame.

I have to see the first program evaluating a king as +5.0 instead
of +infinite :)

>>Beginners usually learn that queen=9 and Rook=5.
>>The values are not exactly correct but queen is equal less than 2 rooks.
>>There are cases when the rooks cannot work together but these cases are the
>>excption and they should be identified by evaluation.
>>
>>I think that the opinion of Bob Hyatt and Vincent Diepveen is wrong and maybe
>>wrong material values is one of the reasons for the relative bad result of
>>Crafty in the 1th division of Leo.
>
>I don't think so. Crafty is reasonably accurate in that respect.
>
>
>Bas.



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