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Subject: Re: Crafty Bug?

Author: Slater Wold

Date: 05:55:03 08/14/02

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On August 14, 2002 at 03:22:54, Uri Blass wrote:

>On August 14, 2002 at 01:01:57, Slater Wold wrote:
>
>>White(1): setboard 8/8/3pR1P1/2k5/8/1p1b4/7K/8 b - - 0 67
>>Black(1): go
>>end-game phase
>>              clearing hash tables
>>              time surplus   0.00  time limit 3:00 (3:00)
>>         nss  depth   time  score   variation (1)
>>starting thread 1
>>         (4)    8->   0.39   0.01   1. ... Bxg6 2. Rxg6 <HT>
>>         (3)    9     0.48   0.01   1. ... Bxg6 2. Rxg6 <HT>
>>         (4)    9->   0.73   0.01   1. ... Bxg6 2. Rxg6 <HT>
>>         (3)   10     0.97   0.01   1. ... Bxg6 2. Rxg6 <HT>
>>         (4)   10->   1.67   0.01   1. ... Bxg6 2. Rxg6 <HT>
>>         (3)   11     1.70   0.01   1. ... Bxg6 2. Rxg6 <HT>
>>         (4)   11->   3.55   0.01   1. ... Bxg6 2. Rxg6 <HT>
>>         (3)   12     3.55   0.01   1. ... Bxg6 2. Rxg6 <HT>
>>         (4)   12->   7.45   0.01   1. ... Bxg6 2. Rxg6 <HT>
>>         (3)   13     7.53   0.01   1. ... Bxg6 2. Rxg6 <HT>
>>               13    21.12     ++   1. ... b2!!
>>               13->   2:49  -0.38   1. ... b26
>>              time=3:00  cpu=307%  mat=1  n=242037717  fh=94%  nps=1342k
>>              ext-> chk=29936339 cap=78644 pp=227271 1rep=1144737 mate=32723
>>              predicted=0  nodes=242037717  evals=21110434
>>              endgame tablebase-> probes done=239240  successful=53187
>>              SMP->  split=778  stop=81  data=9/32  cpu=9:13  elap=3:00
>>
>>Black(1): b2
>>              time used:   3:00
>>
>>#1 - You should see b2 wins pretty much immediatly.  Sure, 21.12 seconds isn't
>>bad, but imagine this on a PIII 600!  -0.38 isn't very convincing either.
>
>I disagree.
>
>seeing that b2 is winning is not an easy task for programs.
>
>Here is some analysis on p850
>with part of the tablebases(including KR vs KPP)
>
>Junior7 could not see it in a minute(I stopped it so I do not know if it is
>faster than Crafty) when Deep Fritz also needed time
>(faster than Crafty but Crafty is only an amateur)
>
>My crafty also needs depth 14 to find it under chessbase gui
>and I do not find that amateurs like Comet are better and
>at least CometB27 that is not very old
>could not find it in 3 minutes when Crafty could do it.
>
>New position
>8/8/3pR1P1/2k5/8/1p1b4/7K/8 b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Junior 7:
>
>1...b2 2.g7 Bh7 3.Re1 b1Q 4.Rxb1
>  µ  (-1.10)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>1...b2 2.g7 Bh7 3.Re1 b1Q 4.Rxb1
>  µ  (-1.10)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  1kN
>1...b2 2.g7 Bh7 3.Re1 Kd4 4.Rb1 Kc3 5.Kg3
>  ²  (0.29)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  54kN
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  61kN, tb=3
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 12   00:00:00  81kN, tb=23
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 15   00:00:01  802kN, tb=285
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 17   00:00:11  8955kN, tb=1077
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 19   00:01:00  51656kN, tb=6118
>
>(blass, tel-aviv 14.08.2002)
>
>New position
>8/8/3pR1P1/2k5/8/1p1b4/7K/8 b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Deep Fritz:
>
>1...Bxg6--
>  +-  (1.41)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>1...Bxg6--
>  +-  (1.41)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>1...b2!
>  =  (0.19)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>1...b2!
>  ³  (-0.34)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>1...b2 2.g7
>  =  (-0.13)   Depth: 2/5   00:00:00
>1...b2 2.g7 Bh7
>  =  (0.12)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
>1...Bf5!
>  =  (0.06)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
>1...Bf5! 2.Rf6
>  =  (0.03)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
>1...Bc4!
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
>1...Bc4! 2.Re8
>  =  (-0.25)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
>1...Bc4 2.Re1 b2 3.Kg3
>  =  (-0.09)   Depth: 4/8   00:00:00
>1...Bc4 2.Re1 b2 3.Kg3 Kd4
>  =  (-0.25)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00  1kN
>1...b2!
>  ³  (-0.28)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00  2kN
>1...b2! 2.g7
>  ³  (-0.56)   Depth: 5/12   00:00:00  2kN
>1...b2--
>  =  (-0.25)   Depth: 6/12   00:00:00  3kN
>1...b2-- 2.g7 Bh7 3.Re1 Bg8 4.Kg3
>  =  (0.19)   Depth: 6/13   00:00:00  5kN
>1...Bc4!
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 6/13   00:00:00  6kN
>1...Bc4! 2.Re1 b2 3.g7 Kd4 4.Rg1
>  =  (0.09)   Depth: 6/13   00:00:00  6kN
>1...Bc4 2.Re1 Kd4 3.Rd1+ Ke5 4.g7 b2
>  =  (0.12)   Depth: 7/16   00:00:00  12kN, tb=1
>1...b2!
>  =  (0.09)   Depth: 7/16   00:00:00  13kN, tb=1
>1...b2! 2.g7 Bh7 3.Re1 Kc4 4.Rb1 Kc3
>  =  (0.06)   Depth: 7/17   00:00:00  17kN, tb=1
>1...b2--
>  ²  (0.37)   Depth: 8/19   00:00:00  44kN, tb=3
>1...b2--
>  ²  (0.37)   Depth: 8/19   00:00:00  45kN, tb=3
>1...Bc4!
>  ²  (0.34)   Depth: 8/19   00:00:00  46kN, tb=3
>1...Bc4! 2.Re1 d5 3.g7 d4 4.Kg3 b2 5.Kf4
>  ²  (0.28)   Depth: 8/19   00:00:00  52kN, tb=3
>1...Bf5!
>  =  (0.25)   Depth: 8/19   00:00:00  55kN, tb=5
>1...Bf5! 2.Rf6 Bxg6 3.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 8/19   00:00:00  57kN, tb=5
>1...Bf5 2.Rf6 Bxg6 3.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 9/17   00:00:00  73kN, tb=12
>1...Bf5 2.Rf6 Bxg6 3.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 10/18   00:00:00  127kN, tb=36
>1...Bf5 2.Rf6 Bxg6 3.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 11/20   00:00:00  259kN, tb=62
>1...Bf5 2.Rf6 Bxg6 3.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 12/22   00:00:01  558kN, tb=114
>1...Bf5 2.Rf6 Bxg6 3.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 13/25   00:00:02  1493kN, tb=214
>1...Bf5 2.Rf6 Bxg6 3.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 14/27   00:00:06  4040kN, tb=481
>1...Bf5 2.Rf6 Bxg6 3.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 15/30   00:00:15  10401kN, tb=1046
>1...b2!
>  =  (0.12)   Depth: 15/30   00:00:20  13175kN, tb=1688
>1...b2! 2.g7 Bh7 3.Re1 Kc4 4.Kg3 Kb3 5.Kg4 Ka2 6.Re2 Ka1 7.Re1+
>  -+  (-1.44)   Depth: 15/33   00:00:31  21436kN, tb=2108
>
>(blass, tel-aviv 14.08.2002)
>
>New position
>8/8/3pR1P1/2k5/8/1p1b4/7K/8 b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Crafty 18.15:
>
>1...b2 2.g7 b1Q 3.g8Q
>  +-  (1.53)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>1...b2 2.g7 b1Q 3.g8Q
>  +-  (1.53)   Depth: 2/6   00:00:00
>1...b2 2.g7 b1Q 3.g8Q
>  ±  (1.13)   Depth: 3/9   00:00:00
>1...b2 2.g7 Bh7 3.g8Q Bxg8
>  µ  (-1.15)   Depth: 3/9   00:00:00
>1...b2 2.g7 b1Q 3.g8Q Qc2+ 4.Kg3 d5
>  +-  (1.47)   Depth: 4/9   00:00:00
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.01)   Depth: 4/9   00:00:00
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.01)   Depth: 5/11   00:00:00
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.01)   Depth: 6/13   00:00:00  11kN, tb=15
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.01)   Depth: 7/15   00:00:00  19kN, tb=27
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.01)   Depth: 8/16   00:00:00  51kN, tb=55
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.01)   Depth: 9/19   00:00:00  156kN, tb=100
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.01)   Depth: 10/21   00:00:02  452kN, tb=239
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.01)   Depth: 11/23   00:00:10  976kN, tb=414
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.01)   Depth: 12/27   00:00:14  2648kN, tb=766
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.01)   Depth: 13/29   00:00:22  6593kN, tb=1513
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  =  (0.01)   Depth: 14/31   00:01:45  20303kN, tb=4876
>1...b2
>  ³  (-0.39)   Depth: 14/31   00:02:40  48439kN, tb=9504
>
>(blass, tel-aviv 14.08.2002)
>
>New position
>8/8/3pR1P1/2k5/8/1p1b4/7K/8 b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Comet B27:
>
>1...Bxg6 2.Rxg6
>  ±  (0.75)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>1...b2
>  -+  (-2.19)   Depth: 1/6   00:00:00
>1...b2 2.g7 b1R
>  -+  (-1.90)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
>1...b2 2.g7 Bf5
>  =  (-0.06)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
>1...Bf5 2.Re8
>  ³  (-0.52)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
>1...Bf5 2.Kg3
>  µ  (-0.83)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
>1...Bf5 2.Re3 Bd3
>  =  (-0.10)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
>1...Bc4 2.Re4 Bg8
>  µ  (-0.82)   Depth: 3/9   00:00:00
>1...b2 2.g7 Bh7 3.Re1
>  µ  (-1.02)   Depth: 3/9   00:00:00
>1...b2 2.g7 Bh7 3.Re1
>  =  (-0.06)   Depth: 3/9   00:00:00
>1...Bc4 2.Re4
>  µ  (-0.82)   Depth: 3/9   00:00:00
>1...Bc4 2.Re4 d5 3.Re3
>  ³  (-0.26)   Depth: 4/12   00:00:00
>1...Bf5 2.Re3 b2 3.g7 Bh7 4.Rb3
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 4/12   00:00:00
>1...b2 2.g7 Bh7 3.Re1 d5
>  µ  (-1.17)   Depth: 4/12   00:00:00
>1...b2 2.g7 Bh7 3.Re1 d5
>  µ  (-1.17)   Depth: 4/12   00:00:00
>1...b2 2.g7 Bh7 3.Re1 d5
>  µ  (-1.17)   Depth: 5/12   00:00:00  11kN
>1...b2 2.g7 Bh7 3.Re1 d5 4.Rb1
>  ³  (-0.34)   Depth: 6/12   00:00:00  17kN
>1...Bf5 2.Re3 Kd5 3.g7 b2 4.g8Q+ Kc5
>  µ  (-1.03)   Depth: 6/13   00:00:00  23kN
>1...Bf5 2.Re3 Kd5 3.g7 b2 4.g8Q+ Kc5
>  µ  (-0.76)   Depth: 6/14   00:00:00  36kN
>1...Bf5 2.Re3 Kd5 3.g7 b2 4.g8Q+ Kc5
>  ³  (-0.49)   Depth: 6/14   00:00:00  41kN
>1...Bf5 2.Re3 Kd5 3.g7 b2 4.g8Q+ Kc5
>  =  (-0.22)   Depth: 6/14   00:00:00  45kN
>1...b2 2.g7 Bh7 3.Re1 d5 4.Rb1
>  ³  (-0.34)   Depth: 6/14   00:00:00  48kN
>1...b2 2.g7 b1Q 3.g8Q Qg1+ 4.Qxg1+ Kd5
>  =  (-0.20)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:00  58kN
>1...b2 2.g7 Bh7 3.Re1 Be4 4.Rxe4
>  =  (0.07)   Depth: 7/16   00:00:00  88kN
>1...Bf5 2.Re3 Bxg6 3.Rxb3
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 7/16   00:00:00  126kN
>1...Bf5 2.Rf6 Bxg6 3.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 8/16   00:00:01  174kN
>1...b2 2.g7 b1Q 3.g8Q Bf5 4.Re3
>  =  (-0.13)   Depth: 8/16   00:00:01  192kN
>1...b2 2.g7 b1Q 3.g8Q Bf1 4.Qc8+ Kd5
>  =  (-0.13)   Depth: 8/16   00:00:01  204kN
>1...b2 2.g7 b1Q 3.g8Q Qb2+ 4.Qg2 Qxg2+ 5.Kxg2
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 9/17   00:00:01  331kN
>1...b2 2.g7 b1Q 3.g8Q Bf5 4.Rxd6 Kxd6 5.Qd8+ Bd7 6.Qf6+ Be6 7.Qf8+
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 10/20   00:00:03  1008kN
>1...b2 2.g7 b1Q 3.g8Q Qb2+ 4.Kg3 Kd5
>  =  (0.14)   Depth: 11/20   00:00:09  2053kN
>1...Bf5 2.Rf6 Bxg6 3.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 11/20   00:00:10  2223kN
>1...Bf5 2.Rf6 Bxg6 3.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 12/22   00:00:13  2982kN
>1...Bf5 2.Rf6 Bxg6 3.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 13/23   00:00:24  6689kN
>1...Bf5 2.Rf6 Bxg6 3.Rxg6
>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 14/25   00:01:01  13676kN
>
>(blass, tel-aviv 14.08.2002)
>
>
>>
>>#2 - What's up with 13->   2:49  -0.38   1. ... b26  <//==- that?
>>
>>#3 - Any reason you can see why Crafty would take *forver* (even after this
>>move) to see the win?
>
>The win is not simple without the relevant knowledge
>that most programs do not have.
>
>Uri

I only have 2 programs installed on my PC now, Crafty and DJ7.

DJ7 saw it pretty quickly (on my system), I think somewhere around 10 seconds.

This is a position where humans go, "Easy win!"  And I think computers should
too.  ;)

Hossa sees it with no problems.



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