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Subject: Re: What do programs do more often(sacrifice or blunder)?

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 07:10:02 08/14/02

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On August 14, 2002 at 09:48:08, Uri Blass wrote:

Ah as i expected an outdated Klamath series. K7 is 20%
faster for each Mhz than a PIII is. i tested both diep,
crafty and deepjunior7 for nearly same difference.

Also it means 1 minute a program a move at 1 cpu,
versus 2 here at 1.6Ghz :)

>On August 14, 2002 at 08:40:45, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
><snipped>
>>In the leo blitz games of course diep would go qxd1 too there at the blitz
>>level with the new version.
>
>leo's time control is 40 minutes/40 moves and
>he is using dual PIII1266.
>
>
>>
>>>By your definition of sacrifice Qxd1+ is a sacrifice.
>>
>>That is very obvious. you give away material for good mobility.
>>
>>>By my definition it is only a trade of material and
>>>nobody sacrificed material.
>>
>>That is a wrong definition, because white wins material after qxd1.
>>
>>>I can imagine that I am going to have more mistakes
>>>if I increase the evaluation of queen to more than 2 rooks.
>>
>>You could implement mobility and put it high. Qxd1 is not a winning
>>move here. it is a speculative move. Just like in some mainlines in
>>sicilian some GMs give up a queen for sometimes only rook + bishop.
>>
>>Good example is some dragon lines i play myself with white. Even Anand
>>manages to get it a draw, but i would love to see DIEP - Anand in that
>>position. Anand would get toasted of course. Computers are way better
>>with more material.
>>
>>Another consideration is that you should print the number of times that
>>movei is having queen+pawn versus 2 rooks, or even queen versus 2 rooks.
>>
>>You will see that the queen directly after that picks up material in
>>95% of the cases. A queen grabs material simply easier than rooks.
>
>I have not a lot of games when I get 2 rooks
>against queen but here is one example when
>it did not happen and rooks of old movei
>grabbed material and got a draw.
>
>[Event "Computer chess game"]
>[Site "URI-PC"]
>[Date "2002.02.18"]
>[Round "-"]
>[White "movei0056"]
>[Black "resp_0_1_4"]
>[Result "1/2-1/2"]
>[TimeControl "40/300"]
>
>1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd6 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 Bg4 6. Be2 Nbd7 7. Nb5
>Qb6 8. Bf4 Nd5 9. Be5 Bxf3 10. gxf3 e6 11. c4 Nxe5 12. dxe5 Nf4 13. Qd2
>Nxe2 14. Qxe2 Bb4+ 15. Kf1 a6 16. Nc3 Bxc3 17. bxc3 O-O 18. Kg1 f6 19. f4
>fxe5 20. fxe5 Rf4 21. Rd1 Raf8 22. Rd2 Qb1+ 23. Kg2 Rxf2+ 24. Qxf2 Qe4+ 25.
>Kg1 Rxf2 26. Rxf2 Qxc4 27. Kg2 Qd5+ 28. Rf3 Qxa2+ 29. Kf1 a5 30. h4 Qd5 31.
>Kf2 Qxe5 32. h5 a4 33. Rh4 a3 34. Ra4 g6 35. hxg6 hxg6 36. c4 Qb2+ 37. Kg3
>a2 38. Rfa3 Qe5+ 39. Kf3 Qh5+ 40. Kg3 Qg5+ 41. Kf3 e5 42. Rxa2 Qf4+ 43. Ke2
>g5 44. c5 e4 45. R2a3 Qg4+ 46. Ke3 Qf5 47. Kd4 c6 48. Ra7 Qd5+ 49. Ke3
>Qxc5+ 50. Kxe4 Qd5+ 51. Ke3 b5 52. R3a6 b4 53. Ra5 c5 54. Re7 b3 55. Raa7
>Qd4+ 56. Ke2 Kf8 57. Reb7 Qe4+ 58. Kf2 Qf4+ 59. Ke2 Qh2+ 60. Ke3 Qh3+ 61.
>Ke4 Qe6+ 62. Kd3 Qg6+ 63. Kc4 Qc2+ 64. Kb5 Qe2+ 65. Kxc5 Qf2+ 66. Kc4 Qf1+
>67. Kb4 Qe1+ 68. Ka3 Qa1+ 69. Kxb3 Qb1+ 70. Kc3 Qc1+ 71. Kd3 Qf1+ 72. Kd4
>Qf4+ 73. Kd5 Qf5+ 74. Kd6 Qf6+ 75. Kc5 Qe5+ 76. Kc4 Qe4+ 77. Kc3 Qf3+ 78.
>Kd2 Qf2+ 79. Kc1 Qe1+ 80. Kc2 Qe2+ 81. Kb1 Qd1+ 82. Kb2 Qd2+ 83. Kb3 Qd3+
>84. Kb4 Qd4+ 85. Kb5 Qd5+ 86. Kb6 Qd6+ 87. Kb5 Qd8 88. Kc5 Qe8 89. Kd4 Qd8+
>90. Ke4 Qe8+ 91. Kf5 Qc8+ 92. Kxg5 Qc5+ 93. Kf4 Qd6+ 94. Ke4 Qe6+ 95. Kd4
>Qd6+ 96. Kc4 Qc6+ 97. Kb4 Qd6+ 98. Kc3 Qc5+ 99. Kd3 Qd5+ 100. Ke3 Qe5+ 101.
>Kf3 Qf5+ 102. Ke2 Qe4+ 103. Kd2 Qd4+ 104. Kc2 Qc4+ 105. Kd1 Qd4+ 106. Kc1
>Qf4+ 107. Kb1 Qe4+ 108. Ka1 Qd4+ 109. Ka2 Qd2+ 110. Kb1 Qd1+ 111. Kb2 Qd2+
>112. Kb3 Qd3+ 113. Ka4 Qc4+ 114. Ka5 Qc5+ 115. Ka6 Qd6+ 116. Rb6 Qd3+ 117.
>Kb7 Ke8 118. Rc6 Qb5+ 119. Kc7 Qe5+ 120. Kb6 Qb2+ 121. Ka6 Qe2+ 122. Ka5
>Qa2+ 123. Kb6 Qb2+ 124. Ka6 Qe2+ 125. Kb6 Qb2+
>1/2-1/2
>
>
><snipped>
>>That means that getting 2 rooks is directly like +13.0 with just
>>mobility and that getting a good queen is +10.5 with good mobility
>>if we assume 5+5 versus 9.
>>
>>You miss 2.5 pawns then for the queen!
>
>I have not that big score for mobility but
>I consider mobility of rooks as a natural situation
>so I may consider punishing rooks without mobility
>in my evaluation when I change my evaluation to be
>more complex.
>
>>
>>>Reducing the evaluation of queen can also cause mistake so
>>>I am not going to change it in the near future.
>>
>>You forgot to mention at which values the stuff is set at now. Also
>>you do not have mobility i already know this for sure now. It is interesting
>>to know what the values from quark are. I bet they are closer to DIEP
>>than they are to Movei!!
>
>I use the number of legal moves in my evaluation
>so I have mobility in my evaluation but
>black's mobility based on this evaluation is
>not bigger than white's mobility.
>
>It is not the optimal way to evaluate mobility
>but it is clearly better than nothing and
>I have games when movei won thanks
>to it's mobility evaluation.
>
>Here is an example from a game against yace when
>movei found the winning Qa4 thanks to it's mobility evaluation
>(it is possible to find it for tactical reasons but
>at the time control of the game movei
>needed positional reasons)
>
>[D]2kr1b1r/ppp1pppp/2n5/2N1P2q/2bP4/4BN1P/PP3PP1/R2Q1RK1 w - - 0 14
>
>My values for pieces are about 10 for queen and
>5.2 for rook and 3.5 pawns for bishop or knight
>so queen against rook bishop and pawn
>is considered as a small advantage.
>
>Uri



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