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Subject: Re: Deep Blue - The Conclusion of the Matter

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 14:13:35 08/22/02

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On August 22, 2002 at 16:39:38, Matthew Hull wrote:

>On August 22, 2002 at 16:09:06, Chris Carson wrote:
>
>>On August 22, 2002 at 15:32:32, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>
>>>On August 22, 2002 at 15:15:08, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 22, 2002 at 14:37:07, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 22, 2002 at 14:20:41, William H Rogers wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>>... That they beat the worlds champ in 2 out of 3 is on
>>>>>>record, but that does not make them the worlds best.
>>>>>>Bill
>>>>>
>>>>>It does if no other program has done it or can do it.  I guess we'll soon know
>>>>>the answer if the Fritz/Kramnik thing ever happens.
>>>>
>>>>Kramnik gets the machine before the match.
>>>>The interesting match is kasparov-Junior and not Kramnik-Fritz.
>>>>
>>>>I think that you should learn statistics and 6 games are too little data to
>>>>decide and stopping to play after these 6 games suggest that they know that they
>>>>were lucky and they want to give the public the worng impression by not playing
>>>>more games.
>>>>
>>>>I do not fall for this trap.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>
>>>Let's put it this way.  They are the only one's to ever get that lucky.  But for
>>>some people, beating the World Champ in 6 games with a lot of skill and some
>>>luck (maybe even a lot of luck) adds up to zero.  I think it adds up to > zero.
>>>Can you at least admit that?
>>
>>Results for DB and Commercials:
>>
>>
>>      ELO   Opp
>>DB97  2862  2795  +2 =3 -1
>>
>>Tiger 2788  2497  +8 =3 -0
>>DJ6   2702  2792  +2 =5 -2
>>Rebel 2697  2697  +2 =0 -2
>>DF6   2678  2545  +6 =4 -2
>>
>>DB96  2642  2775  +1 =2 -3
>>
>>Based on results, the top commercial programs are equal to DB today.
>>The 2700 GM that Rebel tied with played 100 preparation games, GM Kasparov vs DB
>>had none.
>
>How many preparation games did Andersson get before playing Morphy?  Does anyone
>dispute the fact that Morphy beat Andersson?  Are there endless debates about
>who was _really_ the stronger player?

He played no preperation games against a copy of the opponent
when the opponent does not know about it and this is the point.

>
>Was Fischer really stronger than Spassky?  He only just barely beat him.  He
>probably would have lost if he hadn't made such a rediculous fuss and disrupted
>the match.  And he was too chicken to play Karpov.  But I don't see you or
>anybody else sticking up for Spassky or Karpov.

Fisher played a lot of games.
He beated some players 6-0.

Fisher was better than spassky also based on public games
against other players.

It was not the case with deeper blue because it played no
public games against other players.

>>The commercial programs can be played by anyone.  DB was only played
>>by a select few team members and a few games later by DBjr.  The commercial
>>programs are the best today and results as good as DB and over more games.  DB
>>is a dead horse.
>
>According to the laws of arithmetic, 2862 is still greater than 2788.  And it
>was achieved against _THE_ WORLD CHAMPION.  None of the others can boast that.

Humans could not get experience against something similiar to the thing
and the situation today is different.

Uri



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