Author: Rolf Tueschen
Date: 17:25:17 08/24/02
Go up one level in this thread
On August 24, 2002 at 18:23:14, Keith Ian Price wrote: >On August 22, 2002 at 22:35:25, Peter Hegger wrote: > >>On August 22, 2002 at 18:19:17, Keith Ian Price wrote: >> >>>On August 22, 2002 at 10:04:37, Peter Hegger wrote: >>> >>>>On August 22, 2002 at 08:10:27, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>> >>>>>2. Hsu's creations _slaughtered_ the computer competition...ALL OF THEM! >>>> >>>>They did? Where are the game scores? I know that they claimed to have scored >>>>around 90% against other programs during testing, but no game scores exist for >>>>these games. >>>>Are we to simply take their word for it that these games actually happened? >>> >>><snip> >>> >>>>Regards, >>>>Peter >>> >>>I talked to Hsu and asked him specifically about this. He said he did not save >>>the game scores. I listened to his answer while looking him in the eye and I >>>believed him. What do you base your assertion that he is lying on? I am inclined >>>to take a person's word without the personal interview, but in this case I had >>>that added benefit. I don't really care if DB would beat today's programs or >>>not, since it does not exist any longer, but I do not like people calling Hsu a >>>liar with no evidence. If you have some, please post it. >>> >>>kp >> >>Proof? Evidence? I'm not the one who made the claims about my programs prowess. >>But if I did, then I'd surely have game scores to back myself up. If I didn't >>have the scores then I would keep my mouth shut. >>As I stated in the part you snipped, time on a supercomputer doesn't come cheap. >>Atleast not cheap enough to play dozens of games just for fun. >>Peter > >They had all the time on the computer they wanted. IBM wanted to win the match. >The games were not played "for fun" but just to see the progress they had made >from Deep Thought, which lost to Fritz in the 1995 WCCC. They were unimportant >to Hsu beyond the results, since he had no intention of publishing them, and >giving Garry any insight into possible weaknesses of Deep Blue. But whether or >not he was derelict in his scientific duties or not (I suspect not, since he >wasn't trying to show he could beat the current commercials with the Deep Blue >project, but rather beat the human world champion), that is not what I posted >about. I have found that calling someone a liar with no evidence is usually the >province of liars and not honorable men, since liars think everyone lies. But >since you are a pawnbroker, and perhaps have people lying to you every day, I >guess you are entitled to have no trust in another's word. But you say that, if >you did not have the scores, you would keep your mouth shut. Why would you >refrain from making that claim without proof, when you show no compunction for >posting other claims, in fact somewhat libelous claims, without even having >evidence? > >When I talked to Hsu about this, he showed real pride in the accomplishment, >which doesn't square with his making a specious claim. As I recall, he never >posted and boasted about this in any fora, but merely answered a question by Bob >Hyatt through email about Deep Blue's performance relative to the current >commercial programs. This was after the fact, and he had not kept the scores at >that time either. Bob was the one who posted the claim. I'm not sure, since it >has been several years, but I think Hsu said that he wished that Bob had not >posted that, since he did not have the scores. He knew there had been a furor >about it on CCC. I don't want to comment on the other claims you made. Elsewhere I made the necessary explanation of what was wrong and what not. But this here is unfair to Bob Hyatt. What he posted into RGCC in 1997 was as he said especially allowed by Hsu. Otherwise Bob wouldn't have posted it. The "furor" was on RGCC, not on CCC. And I think you remember that now. Rolf Tueschen > >The reason for my snip was not to take away from your post, but because my post >was an answer to the question, "Are we to simply take their word for it that >these games actually happened?" My answer is 'yes'. It is something that most >people do, unless they have been shown good reason not to. > >kp
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