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Subject: Re: 44k copying

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 07:33:32 09/04/02

Go up one level in this thread


On September 04, 2002 at 01:18:26, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On September 03, 2002 at 19:16:16, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>here is your old email.
>
>You claim to look at the crafty code all the time.  Do you _really_ do that
>or just claim you do?  The email shows how you flip-flop, from he copies too
>much to I copy too much.  This is but one of several emails that we exchanged
>about the subject.  I certainly cleared up the 44k as being "max" later on.

Show me the email. I never received. It is a lie. Your memory is simply
very bad on numbers. I do no longer believe any number you quote if it
can be used in your advantage.

Last month 9 out of 10 numbers you mention are not true.

>But you could have found that yourself had you looked...
>
>And I kept pointing out that I was _still_ getting better speedups than you
>were "in spite" of all the copying I do...
>
>Guess it is time to change threads again???
>
>Since this one takes a turn you don't want to get into?  I'd much rather
>talk about your nonsensical statements about Crafty, since those can _easily_
>be disproven.  But that's not on your agenda since you never responded to my
>real data on the smp vs non-smp post from a few days back.
>
>Again, _so_ typical...
>
>BTW the private email you posted has comments by _others_.  I assume you
>asked for their permission (you didn't mine).  That's an actionable offense
>as you should know because of copyright.  You _should_ always ask.  I don't
>object, but I can't speak for others that were in there.
>
>But don't let minor details about "proper behavior" deter you...
>
>
>
>>
>>Return-Path: <hyatt@cis.uab.edu>
>>X-Authentication-Warning: crafty.cis.uab.edu: hyatt owned process doing -bs
>>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:39:49 -0500 (CDT)
>>From: "Robert M. Hyatt" <hyatt@cis.uab.edu>
>>X-X-Sender:  <hyatt@crafty>
>>To: Vincent Diepeveen <diep@xs4all.nl>
>>cc: Gian-Carlo Pascutto <gcp@sjeng.org>,
>>   Thorsten Greiner <thorsten.greiner@web.de>, <brucemo@seanet.com>,
>>   FransMorsch <fmorsch@xs4all.nl>, <Rudolf.Huber@gmx.net>,
>>   <sgasch@hotmail.com>, <stefan@meyer-kahlen.de>, <tckerrigan@attbi.com>,
>>   <weilljc@club-internet.fr>
>>Subject: Re: Some results with ABDADA
>>
>>On Sun, 28 Jul 2002, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>> Crafty doesn't copy even 1/10 of the data you are copying!!
>>>
>>
>>
>>How much is he copying?  I copy about 44K bytes (the TREE
>>structure) to split.  With 4 processors, I copy it 4 times
>>when I split from 1 to 4 in the tree...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> At 11:01 AM 7/28/2002 +0200, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, Robert M. Hyatt wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I disagree there.  It is a fraction of a percent, overall, during any
>>> >> search I have measured it on.  I don't copy a lot of data, since I
>>> >> can be selective...
>>> >
>>> >Does anyone have some concrete data on how evil it is to be copying
>>> >over lots of tree-state data on the common current x86 SMP architectures?
>>> >
>>> >(Assuming a design similar to DTS or PVS)
>>> >
>>> >Vincent has been trying to convince me this is a Very Evil Thing,
>>> >but I'm trying to assess what the impact is going from 4k to 1k or even to
>>> >+- 150 bytes.
>>> >
>>> >I've already done the first, but this includes quite a bit of
>>> >int->char->int conversions which I assume are also evil on current CPUs.
>>> >
>>> >The second would require a more through redesign.
>>> >
>>> >--
>>> >GCP
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>--
>>Robert Hyatt                    Computer and Information Sciences
>>hyatt@cis.uab.edu               University of Alabama at Birmingham
>>(205) 934-2213                  115A Campbell Hall, UAB Station
>>(205) 934-5473 FAX              Birmingham, AL 35294-1170
>>
>>
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>>On September 03, 2002 at 16:33:12, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>On September 03, 2002 at 16:25:23, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 03, 2002 at 16:23:20, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 03, 2002 at 16:10:33, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On September 03, 2002 at 15:56:10, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wrong. Please re-read Vincent's message. "64k on Cray" *probably* was Bob's
>>>>>>>number, but "44k in Crafty" not -- at least I cannot deduce that from Vincent's
>>>>>>>message.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have it in personal email :)
>>>>>
>>>>>Does it says that all 44k are always copied? Because code definitely copies much
>>>>>less.
>>>>
>>>>I think that's what Robert implied (sorry, email is on another machine).
>>>>
>>>>But I agree with you that's not what looks like the code does.
>>>>
>>>>I just wanted to point out Vincent never made up the 44k number, it was
>>>>Robert that told Vincent that was his overhead.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>GCP
>>>
>>>
>>>Again, "max overhead".  Which might on rare occasions actually be hit.  Perhaps
>>>in fine 70 after several minutes, it might have to copy most of that stuff...
>>>
>>>This was when vincent was telling you your split overhead was too high, and
>>>I pointed out mine _could_ be significantly higher with no ill effects since
>>>fine 70 runs just "fine" on my box.. :)



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