Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 13:52:11 10/04/02
Go up one level in this thread
On October 04, 2002 at 14:57:12, Omid David wrote: Posted by Omid David (Profile) on October 04, 2002 at 10:34:43: Just today we had a discussion regarding the importance of blockade draw detections http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?255950 Had Fritz implemented such a scheme, it wouldn't have stepped into the drawing variation. My engine instantly announced draw based on its blocked-draw detection heuristic. While Fritz never realized the draw... Omid. --------------------------------- Did you see the position fritz-kramnik? If you did, do you recognize the position here? >On October 04, 2002 at 14:27:32, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On October 04, 2002 at 11:42:09, Omid David wrote: >> >>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:38:01, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>> >>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:36:16, Omid David wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:33:00, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:25:12, Daniel Clausen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:22:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 10:34:43, Omid David wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>had fritz implemented such a scheme it would play 300 points weaker >>>>>>>>anyway. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"Obviously" it's "impossible" to implement such a scheme, because you've tried >>>>>>>that already for 5 minutes and it didn't work? SCNR :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sargon >>>>>> >>>>>>I played with it with DIEP a few years ago and it performed horrible. >>>>> >>>>>If you apply such method to each and every node in the search tree, it's natural >>>>>that the whole search is slowed down in a horrible manner. >>>> >>>>no you really are an idiotic programmer if you slow down that >>>>much by just a few heuristics. >>> >>>"just a few heuristic" isn't the case here. It's a complicated (pretty >>>time-consuming) algorithm, and this, to make sure its results are 100% correct. >>> >>>>I already do a lot of scans on the >>>>board of diep. a full eval is like 100k clocks. so a scan over >>>>the board is not so expensive. i already scan the pawn structure >>>>extensively in fact. it's just a few functions i need to turn on >>>>to find otu things. >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>when you have code that 'overrules' other code then you take away hundreds >>>>>>of patterns which normally compensate knowledge. it means that if that >>>>>>single pattern is incorrect, that you lose directly a game. >>>>> >>>>>Of course. And that's why your heuristic should be 100% correct and reliable. >>>> >>>>the problem of the whole chess game is that you have never 100% correct >>>>and reliable evaluation except if your opponent is mated. >>> >>>Wrong. I've conducted hundreds of tests, and in no single case has my heuristic >>>returned an inaccurate result. There exist blockades that it fails to detect, >>>but it never declares a false draw. >> >>That's an impossible claim only a beginner can make. > >If you can't do it, it doesn't mean it's impossible. I say it is possible for I >have already done it. > > >> >>let's take that 'easy to recognize blocked position from against >>kramnik as you mention >> >>white: Kf1,b3,a4,c4,e5,f4,g5 >>black: Ka7,a5,b6,c7,e6,g6 > >My engine doesn't detect any draw here. > > >> >>black did big effort to exchange to this position. ideally blocked... >> >>f5 (pawn sacrafice) 1-0 >> >>Vincent >> >>>Omid. >>> >>>> >>>>>Omid.
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