Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 11:29:56 10/10/02
Go up one level in this thread
On October 10, 2002 at 02:01:51, Uri Blass wrote: >On October 09, 2002 at 23:06:48, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >> >> >>I had to stop the experiment sooner than I wanted, but I did find some >>interesting things out. >> >>1. at _very_ fast time controls (40 moves in 1 minute) null-move completely >>destroys non-null-move >>by a ridiculous margin. (this ended something like 60 wins, 5 losses, 8 draws) >> >>2. At longer time controls (40 moves in 10 minutes) non-null-move catches up >>somewhat. It still loses >>far more than it wins, but not _nearly_ so bad as test 1. (this was closer, but >>with fewer games played) > >It seems based on your data that null move is more important for blitz and not >for long time control. > >Interesting to know also the difference in plies > >If I compare depth after 3 minutes of search then I see for deep Fritz 3-5 plies >difference at 3 minutes per move between selectivity 0 and the default value 2. > >I see depth 14,17 against depth 11,12 >The hardware is PIII850 > First, you are comparing apples and oranges. It is _impossible_ to do a full-width 12 ply search in 3 minutes, for typical positions, using only a PIII/850. My tests with Crafty was producing 9-10 ply searches at best for 2 minutes a move. Fritz does some forward pruning _besides_ null-move, which makes the comparison with and without not so meaningful. >Here is the analysis: > >Deep Fritz with null move pruning: > >Fritz - Kramnik >2kr3r/p1p1np1p/1p1bbp2/2p5/N3PP2/2P1B3/PP3KPP/R4B1R w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Deep Fritz: > >15.Nxb6+-- > µ (-1.25) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >15.Nxb6+-- cxb6 > -+ (-1.81) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >15.Nxc5! > -+ (-1.75) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >15.Nxc5! Bxc5 > µ (-1.09) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 >15.Rd1! > µ (-0.87) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 >15.Rd1! Bxa2 > = (0.19) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 >15.f5! > = (0.22) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 >15.f5! > ² (0.53) Depth: 2/5 00:00:00 >15.f5 Bd7 16.Ba6+ Kb8 > ² (0.53) Depth: 3/6 00:00:00 >15.f5 Bd7 16.Ba6+ Kb8 17.b3 > ² (0.50) Depth: 4/11 00:00:00 1kN >15.f5 Bd7 16.b3 Be5 17.Ba6+ Kb8 > ² (0.34) Depth: 5/11 00:00:00 4kN >15.Bb5! > ² (0.38) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 8kN >15.Bb5! Bg4 > ² (0.41) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 10kN >15.Bb5 Bg4 16.f5 Rhg8 17.Bc4 Rg7 > ² (0.34) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 23kN >15.b3! > ² (0.38) Depth: 6/17 00:00:00 44kN >15.b3! Bd7 16.Ba6+ Kb8 17.Rad1 Bg4 18.Be2 > ² (0.53) Depth: 6/17 00:00:00 52kN >15.b3 Rhe8 16.Ba6+ Kb8 17.f5 Bd7 18.Rad1 Be5 > ² (0.44) Depth: 7/19 00:00:00 104kN >15.b3 Rhg8 16.f5 Bd7 17.Bc4 Rg4 18.Kf3 Rg7 > ² (0.47) Depth: 8/22 00:00:00 364kN >15.b3 Bd7 16.Rd1 Ng6 17.Ba6+ Kb8 18.f5 Ne5 19.Nb2 Rhe8 > ² (0.41) Depth: 9/24 00:00:01 961kN >15.Bb5! > ² (0.44) Depth: 9/24 00:00:02 1134kN >15.Bb5! Kb7 16.b3 a6 17.Be2 Bd7 18.Rad1 Bxa4 19.bxa4 f5 > ² (0.47) Depth: 9/24 00:00:02 1169kN >15.Bb5 Kb7 16.b3 a6 17.Be2 Bd7 18.Rad1 Bc6 19.Bd3 Rhe8 > ² (0.44) Depth: 10/25 00:00:03 1806kN >15.Bb5 Kb8 16.Rhd1 Bc8 17.Rd2 a6 18.Bd3 c4 19.Bxc4 b5 20.Rxd6 Rxd6 > ² (0.44) Depth: 11/28 00:00:09 5856kN >15.Bb5 Kb8 16.Rhd1 Bc8 17.Rd2 a6 18.Bd3 c4 19.Bxc4 b5 20.Rxd6 Rxd6 > ² (0.44) Depth: 12/30 00:00:17 11015kN >15.Bb5 Kb7 16.b3 a6 17.Be2 Bd7 18.Bf3 Bc6 19.Nb2 Ng6 20.f5 Ne5 > ² (0.38) Depth: 13/33 00:01:08 43630kN >15.Bb5 Kb7 16.b3 a6 17.Bd3 Bd7 18.Nb2 Ng6 19.g3 Bc6 20.Rad1 Rhe8 > = (0.19) Depth: 14/35 00:02:25 94036kN >15.b3! > = (0.22) Depth: 14/36 00:02:45 107297kN > >(blass, tel-aviv 10.10.2002) > > >Fritz - Kramnik >[D]2kr3r/p4pbp/1pp1b3/2pNPp2/2P2P2/PP2K3/6PP/2R2B1R w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Deep Fritz: > >23.Nxb6+-- > µ (-0.75) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >23.Nxb6+-- axb6 > -+ (-1.50) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >23.Nf6! > = (-0.06) Depth: 1/9 00:00:00 >23.Nf6! Bxf6 > ² (0.63) Depth: 1/9 00:00:00 >23.Ne7+! > ² (0.66) Depth: 1/9 00:00:00 >23.Ne7+-- > ² (0.34) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00 >23.Ne7+-- Kd7 24.Nxc6 Kxc6 > -+ (-1.72) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00 >23.Nf6! > ³ (-0.69) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00 >23.Nf6! Bxf6 24.exf6 > ² (0.63) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00 >23.Nf6-- > = (0.13) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 >23.Nf6-- > = (0.13) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Re1 > ² (0.41) Depth: 4/10 00:00:00 1kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 a6 > = (0.16) Depth: 5/11 00:00:00 2kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 a6 26.Re1 > ² (0.44) Depth: 6/15 00:00:00 7kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 h5 26.Re1 Bd5+ 27.Kf2 > = (0.25) Depth: 7/16 00:00:00 23kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 Rd6 26.Re1 Bd5+ 27.Kf2 Rxe1 28.Kxe1 > ² (0.34) Depth: 8/19 00:00:00 54kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 Rd2 26.Be2 Rxe2 27.Kxe2 Bxc4+ 28.Kd2 Bxb3 > ² (0.34) Depth: 9/20 00:00:00 125kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 Rd2 26.g3 Ra2 27.a4 Rb2 28.Rc3 > ² (0.41) Depth: 10/26 00:00:00 384kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 Rd2 26.Re1 Ra2 27.a4 Rb2 28.Re3 Rd2 > ² (0.38) Depth: 11/28 00:00:01 780kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 a5 25.Be2 Rhg8 26.Kf3 Rg6 27.Rcd1 Rxf6 28.Rxd8+ Kxd8 > ² (0.34) Depth: 12/31 00:00:03 2244kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rd6 25.Re1 Bd7 26.Bd3 Rxf6 27.Kd2 Kd8 28.Re2 Rd6 > ² (0.28) Depth: 13/32 00:00:07 5060kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rd6 25.Re1 Bd7 26.Kf3 Rxf6 27.Re5 Re6 28.Bd3 f6 > ² (0.28) Depth: 14/32 00:00:12 8684kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 Rg8 26.Be2 Rg6 27.Rcd1 Rxf6 28.Rxd8+ Kxd8 > = (0.22) Depth: 15/35 00:00:27 18244kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 Rd2 26.Rc3 Rd1 27.Re3 Red8 28.Rg1 b5 > = (0.25) Depth: 16/36 00:01:07 46266kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 Rd2 26.Rc3 Rd1 27.g3 Red8 28.Re3 b5 > = (0.22) Depth: 17/38 00:02:39 108971kN > >(blass, tel-aviv 10.10.2002) > >Deep Fritz with selectivity 0: > > >Fritz - Kramnik >2kr3r/p1p1np1p/1p1bbp2/2p5/N3PP2/2P1B3/PP3KPP/R4B1R w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Deep Fritz: > >15.Nxb6+-- > µ (-1.25) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >15.Nxb6+-- cxb6 > -+ (-1.81) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >15.Nxc5! > -+ (-1.75) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >15.Nxc5! Bxc5 > µ (-1.09) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 >15.Rd1! > µ (-0.87) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 >15.Rd1! Bxa2 > = (0.19) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 >15.f5! > = (0.22) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 >15.f5! > ² (0.53) Depth: 2/5 00:00:00 >15.f5 Bd7 16.Ba6+ Kb8 > ² (0.53) Depth: 3/6 00:00:00 >15.f5 Bd7 16.Ba6+ Kb8 17.b3 > ² (0.50) Depth: 4/9 00:00:00 1kN >15.f5 Bd7 16.b3 Be5 17.Ba6+ Kb8 > ² (0.34) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 10kN >15.Bb5! > ² (0.38) Depth: 5/16 00:00:00 15kN >15.Bb5! Bg4 > ² (0.41) Depth: 5/16 00:00:00 17kN >15.Bb5 Bg4 16.f5 Rhg8 17.Bc4 Rg7 > ² (0.34) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 57kN >15.b3! > ² (0.38) Depth: 6/20 00:00:00 140kN >15.b3! Bg4 16.Be2 Bd7 17.Rad1 Rhe8 > ² (0.47) Depth: 6/20 00:00:00 149kN >15.b3 Bd7 16.Rd1 Rhg8 17.Ba6+ Kb8 18.Bc4 Be6 > ² (0.50) Depth: 7/19 00:00:00 323kN >15.b3 Bd7 16.Rd1 Rhe8 17.Bc4 Ng6 18.f5 Ne5 > ² (0.50) Depth: 8/22 00:00:02 1327kN >15.b3 Bd7 16.Rd1 Ng6 17.Ba6+ Kb8 18.f5 Ne5 19.Nb2 Rhe8 > ² (0.41) Depth: 9/24 00:00:09 5332kN >15.Bb5! > ² (0.44) Depth: 9/24 00:00:11 6326kN >15.Bb5! Kb7 16.b3 a6 17.Be2 Bd7 18.Rad1 Bxa4 19.bxa4 f5 > ² (0.47) Depth: 9/25 00:00:12 6845kN >15.Bb5 Kb7 16.b3 a6 17.Be2 Bd7 18.Rad1 Bc6 19.Bd3 Rhe8 > ² (0.44) Depth: 10/31 00:00:32 19128kN >15.Bb5 Kb8 16.Rhd1 Bc8 17.Rd2 a6 18.Bd3 c4 19.Bxc4 b5 > ² (0.44) Depth: 11/31 00:03:03 104762kN > >(blass, tel-aviv 10.10.2002) > > >Fritz - Kramnik >2kr3r/p4pbp/1pp1b3/2pNPp2/2P2P2/PP2K3/6PP/2R2B1R w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Deep Fritz: > >23.Nxb6+-- > µ (-0.75) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >23.Nxb6+-- axb6 > -+ (-1.50) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >23.Nf6! > = (-0.06) Depth: 1/9 00:00:00 >23.Nf6! Bxf6 > ² (0.63) Depth: 1/9 00:00:00 >23.Ne7+! > ² (0.66) Depth: 1/9 00:00:00 >23.Ne7+-- > ² (0.34) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00 >23.Ne7+-- Kd7 24.Nxc6 Kxc6 > -+ (-1.72) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00 >23.Nf6! > ³ (-0.69) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00 >23.Nf6! Bxf6 24.exf6 > ² (0.63) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00 >23.Nf6-- > = (0.13) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 >23.Nf6-- > = (0.13) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Re1 > ² (0.41) Depth: 4/10 00:00:00 1kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 a6 > = (0.16) Depth: 5/11 00:00:00 6kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 a6 26.Re1 > ² (0.44) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 24kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 h5 26.Re1 Bd5+ 27.Kf2 > = (0.25) Depth: 7/20 00:00:00 108kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 Rg8 26.Re1 Rg6 27.Be2 Rxf6 > = (0.22) Depth: 8/25 00:00:00 368kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 Rg8 26.Re1 Rg6 27.Be2 Rxf6 > = (0.22) Depth: 9/25 00:00:02 1536kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rhe8 25.Kf3 Rd2 26.g3 Bd7 27.Rc3 Rd6 > ² (0.38) Depth: 10/28 00:00:09 5845kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rd6 25.Re1 Bd7 26.Kf2 Rxf6 27.g3 Rd8 > = (0.25) Depth: 11/29 00:00:33 21955kN >23.Nf6 Bxf6 24.exf6 Rd6 25.Re1 Bd7 26.Kf2 Rxf6 27.g3 Re6 28.Bd3 Rhe8 > ² (0.31) Depth: 12/33 00:01:55 74828kN > >(blass, tel-aviv 10.10.2002) > >Uri
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.