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Subject: Re: need an advice how to detect a bug

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 10:49:00 11/04/02

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On November 04, 2002 at 13:29:04, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On November 04, 2002 at 09:39:14, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On November 04, 2002 at 06:40:14, Pham Minh Tri wrote:
>>
>>
>>I hardly use asserts in DIEP. If i need one i usually use a
>>printf, which gets removed using a // when it is tested well
>>and a year later or so removed.
>>
>>I guess bob has the same habit.
>
>Actually I have a lot of debugging code in crafty.  I surround the debug
>blocks with something like this:
>
>#if defined (DEBUG)
>  ...
>#endif

Exactly, but i don't expect you to make mistakes like next in
your evaluation:

if( <pattern> &&  quickboard[sq-5] == blackbishop )
  ...

Now depending upon pattern that is a possible boundsbug.

However that type of bugs are very common in MOVEI type programs.
Especially the ones not boundschecked. I would not expect you to
make that type of bugs however.

Most people therefore use loads of asserts to check for example:
  assert(sq-5);

or in 'compatible' Nalimowintel notation:
  ASSERT(sq-5);

>I don't _always_ use DEBUG.  I have DEBUGSMP so that I can just get the
>parallel search debug information without all the evaluation and search debug
>info.  I also have a bunch of different DEBUG macros for evaluation so that I
>can just get the output from the particular piece of code I am working on.
>
>
>
>>
>>I boundscheck carefully though and if i detect a difference in
>>node count somewhere then i am going to check it out and do not
>>ignore it or claim the compiler is to blame :)
>>
>
>
>I thought you were claiming that the Intel compiler had many such
>bugs?  :)
>
>
>
>
>>Note that it is a hard truth that compilers *do* make errors,
>>but in 99.99% of the cases it is a bug in the program, so finding
>>them happens very seldom. Basically i just found out some stupid
>>things in gcc and in intel c++.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Vincent
>
>
>I think _the_ most common type of bug is unitialized data.  That is almost
>_always_ the problem when a program changes its behavior when you insert
>a function call (such as printf()).  And these bugs +must+ be found of course,
>or the program will always have a random component in the evaluation that
>will change when optimization level is changed, new functions are called, or
>a new compiler/computer architecture is used...
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>>On November 03, 2002 at 13:47:57, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 03, 2002 at 12:23:50, Russell Reagan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Do you have an assert for every index in your program?
>>>>
>>>>If not then a boundschecker might be an idea to try as well :)
>>>>
>>>>>What I usually do to find bugs is use the assert() macro (in assert.h, or you
>>>>>could write your own). Basically what you do is you assert things you know
>>>>>should be true, such as an index into an array being in bounds. If it's false,
>>>>>your program will halt and let you know where the error occured. For example:
>>>>>
>>>>>assert(i < MAX_VALUE);
>>>>>myArray[i] = SomeFunction(x);
>>>>>
>>>>>That way, when you run the program, it will make sure that i is within bounds.
>>>>>The cool thing about this is that it only does this in debug mode. In release
>>>>>mode the assert()'s go away, so there is no speed penalty. In my programs I go
>>>>>crazy with asserts, and put them all over the place, and it helps find some bugs
>>>>>I wouldn't have found without the asserts. Yes, it will run slower in debug
>>>>>mode, but the point of debug mode is to find bugs, not to run fast.
>>>>>
>>>>>Russell
>>>
>>>I agree that use of asserts in everywhere is one of the best experiences to
>>>share (including check bounds). Sometimes my new changes can trigger some dozens
>>>of asserts. Without asserts, my program can run two times slower in debug mode,
>>>but now, it is 20-30 times (in term of nodes per second) as slow as it in
>>>release mode. The big benefit is I can fast develop program, try many new ideas
>>>without worrying much about new errors.
>>>
>>>One of amazing thing to me is that I don't find out asserts in Crafty. So I
>>>guess Bob used a special program to clean up the developing versions before
>>>releasing.
>>>Bob, is it correct? Thanks :)



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