Author: Uri Blass
Date: 08:19:50 11/25/02
Go up one level in this thread
On November 25, 2002 at 11:08:52, Terry McCracken wrote: >On November 25, 2002 at 01:01:12, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On November 24, 2002 at 13:22:46, Terry McCracken wrote: >> >>>On November 24, 2002 at 10:23:38, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On November 23, 2002 at 19:16:23, Jay Hysenbeg wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 23, 2002 at 08:17:02, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 23, 2002 at 00:32:08, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On November 23, 2002 at 00:13:32, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On November 22, 2002 at 23:45:01, Jay Hysenbeg wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>[D]8/4p3/4Q3/8/8/k1p3PP/1q3P1K/8 w - - 0 1 >>>>>>>>>wKh2,Qe6,Pf2,g3,h3/bKa3,Qb2,Pc3,e7 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>is this a problem with my deepfritz7 or does this happen with your df7 too. mine >>>>>>>>>fails to see that Qxe7 is a loosing line >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Is it certain Qe7 loses? All I can see is a long series of checks and I don't >>>>>>>see how black can find a safe haven from them to promote the pawn... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I let Crafty run a while and it says 0.00... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Bob White can't lose, I just inserted the [D] to look at the position. >>>>>> >>>>>>It looked totally uninteresting. >>>>>> >>>>>>Terry >>>>>chesstiger 15/14 and gambit tiger both see that Qxe7 is losing for white score >>>>>jumps by 5 pawns >>>> >>>> >>>>Would you post the "losing" line? I don't see how black can ever escape the >>>>checks. >>> >>>Bob I looked at it again and it appears I really underestimated the position! >>> >>>After 1.Qxe7+?? ...Ka2!! going to b1 and it really goes down hill for White >>>quickly! >>> >>>I should have seen this...arrghh! getting rusty...."creak"....sigh... >>> >>>Terry >>> >>>P.S. 1...Kb3 is ok I think but Ka2!! and White will have to resign, Black will >>>get out of check and promote his pawn. >>> >>>Try it yourself, you'll see White starts to lose ground for grabbing the pawn. >>> >>>It's a tricky endgame and Fritz 7 is slower than Tiger to spot the loss. >>>HIARCS 8, Junior 7, Shredder 6 all see a lost position but not straight away. >>> >>>Only Tiger spots it instantly! Bravo Christophe! >>> >>> >>>Juni >> >> >>I guess I am way beyond rusty, because I +still+ don't see it. :) >> >>Qxe7 Ka2 (your move) >>Qe6+ >> >>Now what? Kb1? If so, I'd probalby try Qe4+ and expect c2. Now I play >>f4 and wait for black to try to unpin the pawn. Ka1 Qa4 Kb1 and we dance >>again. >> >>How does black make progress here? >> >>Note that this is human analysis, not computer analysis. I let crafty crank >>on it a while yesterday or whenever and it simply said 0.00 very quickly and >>didn't change. >> >>I'm not sure the above is very accurate. I didn't dwell on this for many >>minutes, so I probably overlooked something simple, but I've generally found >>that with a queen, a queen and pawn is usually not enough of a shelter to stop >>the forever checks. >> >>I was trying to create a position where >> >>(1) black controls the b1-c2-d3-etc diagonal so that white can't pin the >>pawn there; >> >>(2) the black king would then be at b1, and somehow checks along the b-file >>are impossible so that a check on the 8th rank could be met by c1=Q blocking >>the check; >> >>(3) I don't see how to do both, although from your comments apparently it is >>possible or else white can be forced to a queen location where the pin along >>the diagonal can't be played? > > >Keep going!;-) > >Date: 25/11/2002 >White: Terry McCracken >Black: Chess Tiger 14.0 > >1. Qxe7+ Ka2 2. Qe6+ Kb1 3. Qe4+ c2 4. f4 Qc3 5. Qb7+ >( 5. h4 Kb2 6. Qb7+ Kc1 >( 6... Ka3 7. Qa6+ Kb4 8. Qb7+ Kc4 9. Qe4+ Kc5 10. Qe7+ >( 10. Qf5+ Kd4 11. Qf6+ >( 11. Qd7+ Ke3 ) >11... Kd3 ) >10... Kd4 11. Qd6+ Ke3 ) >) >5... Kc1 > >Terry > >Don't take the pawn! Qa6+!! Draws! > >Interesting posistion. Notice 4.f4 Qc3! winning for Black. You choose the wrong program and the wrong side. If you claim a win then you should beat programs with black and not chess tiger but programs that claim that it is a draw. Note that yace did not play 4.f4 in my analysis After 4.f4 Qc3 Yace feels bad with 4.f5 so finding Qc3 may be a good test position New position [D]8/8/8/8/4QP2/2q3PP/2p4K/1k6 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Yace 0.99.56: 5.Qe4xc2+ Kb1xc2 -+ (-5.75) Depth: 1 00:00:00 5.f4-f5 +- (2.15) Depth: 1 00:00:00 5.g3-g4 +- (2.18) Depth: 1 00:00:00 5.g3-g4 Kb1-c1 +- (2.05) Depth: 2 00:00:00 5.g3-g4 Qc3-d2+ 6.Kh2-g3 Kb1-c1 +- (2.05) Depth: 3 00:00:00 5.g3-g4 Qc3-d2+ 6.Kh2-g3 Qd2-c3+ 7.Kg3-g2 Qc3-d2+ 8.Kg2-f1 Kb1-c1 +- (1.96) Depth: 4 00:00:00 5.g3-g4 Qc3-d2+ 6.Kh2-g3 Qd2-c3+ 7.Qe4-e3 c2-c1Q 8.Kg3-g2 +- (1.56) Depth: 5 00:00:00 3kN 5.g3-g4 Qc3-d2+ 6.Kh2-g1 Kb1-b2 7.Qe4-b7+ Kb2-c3 8.Qb7-c8+ Kc3-d3 9.Qc8-d7+ Kd3-e4 +- (1.56) Depth: 5 00:00:00 3kN 5.g3-g4 Qc3-d2+ 6.Kh2-g3 Kb1-b2 7.Qe4-b7+ Kb2-c3 8.Qb7-c6+ Kc3-b4 9.Qc6-b6+ Kb4-a4 10.Qb6-a7+ Ka4-b4 11.Qa7-e7+ Kb4-b3 12.Qe7-b7+ Kb3-c3 ± (1.18) Depth: 6 00:00:00 17kN 5.g3-g4 Qc3-d2+ 6.Kh2-g3 Kb1-b2 7.Qe4-a4 c2-c1Q 8.Kg3-h4 ± (0.78) Depth: 7 00:00:00 59kN 5.g3-g4 Qc3-d2+ 6.Kh2-h1 Kb1-b2 7.Qe4-b7+ Kb2-c3 8.Qb7-c6+ Kc3-d3 9.Qc6-d6+ Kd3-e2 10.Qd6-a6+ Ke2-f3 11.Qa6-f1+ Kf3-g3 12.Qf1-g1+ Kg3xf4 13.g4-g5 ² (0.35) Depth: 7 00:00:00 59kN 5.g3-g4 Qc3-d2+ 6.Kh2-g3 Kb1-b2 7.Qe4-b7+ Kb2-c3 8.Qb7-c6+ Kc3-b4 9.Qc6-b6+ Kb4-a4 10.Qb6-a7+ Ka4-b3 11.Qa7-b6+ Kb3-a4 12.Qb6-a7+ Ka4-b3 13.Qa7-b6+ Kb3-a4 = (0.00) Depth: 8 00:00:00 228kN 5.g3-g4 Kb1-b2 6.Qe4-e2 Kb2-c1 7.Qe2-a6 Kc1-d2 8.Qa6-a2 Kd2-e1 9.Qa2-e6+ Ke1-d1 10.Qe6-d5+ Qc3-d2+ 11.Qd5xd2+ Kd1xd2 12.h3-h4 = (-0.01) Depth: 9 00:00:01 381kN 5.f4-f5 Qc3-d2+ 6.Kh2-g1 Qd2-d1+ 7.Kg1-g2 Qd1-d2+ 8.Kg2-f1 Qd2-d1+ 9.Kf1-f2 Qd1-d2+ 10.Kf2-f1 = (0.00) Depth: 9 00:00:01 381kN 5.f4-f5 Qc3-d2+ 6.Kh2-g1 Qd2-d1+ 7.Kg1-g2 Qd1-d2+ 8.Kg2-f1 Qd2-d1+ 9.Kf1-f2 Qd1-d2+ 10.Kf2-f1 Qd2-d1+ 11.Kf1-f2 Qd1-d2+ 12.Kf2-f1 = (0.00) Depth: 9 00:00:01 381kN 5.f4-f5 Qc3-d2+ 6.Kh2-g1 Qd2-d1+ 7.Kg1-g2 Qd1-d2+ 8.Kg2-f1 Qd2-d1+ 9.Kf1-f2 Qd1-d2+ 10.Kf2-f1 = (0.00) Depth: 10 00:00:02 799kN 5.f4-f5 Qc3-d2+ 6.Kh2-g1 Qd2-d1+ 7.Kg1-g2 Qd1-d2+ 8.Kg2-f1 Qd2-d1+ 9.Kf1-f2 Qd1-d2+ 10.Kf2-f1 Qd2-d1+ 11.Kf1-f2 Qd1-d2+ 12.Kf2-f1 = (0.00) Depth: 11 00:00:04 1553kN 5.f4-f5 Kb1-a1 6.Qe4-a4+ Ka1-b2 7.Qa4-b5+ Kb2-a3 8.Qb5-a6+ Ka3-b4 9.Qa6-b7+ Kb4-c5 10.Qb7-e7+ Kc5-d4 11.Qe7-d6+ Kd4-e4 12.Qd6-f4+ Ke4-d5 13.Qf4-c1 Qc3-c4 14.Kh2-h1 Qc4-e2 15.Qc1-b2 Qe2-d1+ 16.Kh1-g2 c2-c1Q 17.Qb2xc1 = (-0.08) Depth: 13 00:01:18 28681kN 5.f4-f5 Kb1-a1 6.Qe4-a4+ Ka1-b2 7.Qa4-b5+ Kb2-a3 8.Qb5-a6+ Ka3-b4 9.Qa6-b7+ Kb4-c5 10.Qb7-e7+ Kc5-d4 11.Qe7-d6+ Kd4-e4 12.Qd6-f4+ Ke4-d5 13.Qf4-c1 Qc3-c4 14.Kh2-h1 Qc4-e2 15.Qc1-b2 Qe2-d1+ 16.Kh1-g2 c2-c1Q 17.Qb2xc1 Qd1xc1 18.h3-h4 = (-0.08) Depth: 13 00:02:15 50528kN 5.f4-f5 Kb1-a1 6.Qe4-a4+ Ka1-b2 7.Qa4-b5+ Kb2-a3 8.Qb5-a6+ Ka3-b4 9.Qa6-b7+ Kb4-c5 10.Qb7-e7+ Kc5-d4 11.Qe7-d6+ Kd4-e4 12.Qd6-f4+ Ke4-d5 13.Qf4-c1 Qc3-c4 14.Kh2-h1 Qc4-e4+ 15.Kh1-g1 Qe4-d4+ 16.Kg1-g2 Qd4-d1 17.Qc1-d2+ Qd1xd2+ 18.Kg2-g1 ³ (-0.48) Depth: 14 00:02:28 55573kN 5.f4-f5 Kb1-a1 6.Qe4-a8+ Ka1-b2 7.Qa8-b7+ Kb2-a3 8.Qb7-a7+ Ka3-b4 9.Qa7-e7+ Kb4-b5 10.Qe7-e8+ Kb5-b6 11.Qe8-b8+ Kb6-c5 12.Qb8-c7+ Kc5-d4 13.Qc7-f4+ Kd4-d5 -+ (-5.34) Depth: 14 00:05:10 116556kN (Blass, Tel-aviv 25.11.2002) Uri
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