Author: Ingo Lindam
Date: 11:34:24 12/11/02
Go up one level in this thread
On December 11, 2002 at 14:18:00, Dann Corbit wrote: >On December 11, 2002 at 14:12:06, Ingo Lindam wrote: > >>On December 11, 2002 at 13:54:08, Dann Corbit wrote: >> >>>On December 11, 2002 at 13:46:45, Ingo Lindam wrote: >>> >>>>On December 11, 2002 at 13:23:23, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>> >>>>>I never said it 'has to be done with' -- only that they are equivalent and >>>>>alternatives will not be superior. >>>>> >>>>>For that matter, the tree is nothing more than a visualization aid. The steps >>>>>will be the same whether or not a tree is used to visualize it. >>>> >>>>So I understand you right that to prove that following position will end in a >>>>draw is impossible by a giving proof less complex (smaller) than that very very >>>>big tree of all possible continuations...??? >>>> >>>>[D] 6k1/bp1p1p1p/8/pPpPpPpP/P1P1P1P1/8/B3K3/8 w - - 0 1 >>>> >>>>You are just kidding, aren't you? >>> >>>Of course not. Any *proof* of the forced outcome of this game will be identical >>>to the tree proof. >> >>Hey Dann, please... :-((( !!!! >> >>you are/were a math major... >>it can't be true that you don't see it. >> >>It hurts... >>and I am really crying now... >> >>You can see the position? >>You know the chess rules? >>What are the possible results of a chess game? >>If white can not win the position and black can not win the position, what is >>the only possible result? >> >>What is needed to win a game? >>YES! Mate! >>Might there any arguments to prove that white can not mate without promoting a >>pawn...? >>Might there any arguments to prove that black can not mate without promoting a >>pawn...? >> >>What about strategies to defend against promoting for white/black? >> >>(ofcourse you can give an equivalent to each proof within a tree, but this is >>not the tree of all continuations!!!!) >>So, now forget everything you believe to know about the connection between >>trees and proofs. >> >>Take you pencil... >>take a sheet of paper... >>sit down... >>be a nice boy... >>and write down the proof!!! >> >>..and if you do not see it then....!!! >> >>Then take as much paper as you need >>and try to write all possible continuations >>on the paper until you finally feel the difference in every >>finger and you see... >> >>"oh, he's right...the is indeed a tiny difference!" > >The tree proof is identical. > >What have you done? > >You looked at the list of possible moves. >You looked at the list of possible responses. >You continued that logically forward until you saw the outcome. >That is what the tree proof does also. There is no difference. If you fail to >do this, you do not have a proof. > >By the way, a win is possible. > >[D]6k1/bp1p1p1p/8/pPpPpPpP/P1P1P1P1/8/B3K3/8 w - - >[D]6k1/bp1p1p1p/1P6/p1pPpPpP/P1P1P1P1/8/B3K3/8 b - - >[D]5k2/bp1p1p1p/1P6/p1pPpPpP/P1P1P1P1/8/B3K3/8 w - - >[D]5k2/Pp1p1p1p/8/p1pPpPpP/P1P1P1P1/8/B3K3/8 b - - >[D]Q4k2/1p1p1p1p/8/p1pPpPpP/P1P1P1P1/8/B3K3/8 w - - > >And (may I add) "Look -- it's obiously a win!" is not a proof of any sort. Sorry Dann, now I am convinced that you can't be a human being. You must be a computer programm running on hardware that is just too small and too slow to get it. My proof is not to say "See it's obviously a draw" and I am sure it will take me some effort to put it on a single sheet of paper in a correct way. I am also sure that I already proved some more difficult to prove things. And last I am sure also this proof wouldn't help you, wouldn't convince you. Just let my know when surpisingly some day will come a light into your brain making you understand. Good luck! Internette Gruesse, Ingo
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