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Subject: Re: If comps are only 2500-2600 then....

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 05:30:20 02/04/03

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On February 03, 2003 at 20:02:27, Roy Brunjes wrote:

>On February 03, 2003 at 19:52:42, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>
>>On February 03, 2003 at 19:49:28, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>
>>>On February 03, 2003 at 19:41:03, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 03, 2003 at 19:33:55, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 03, 2003 at 19:05:27, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On February 03, 2003 at 18:54:54, Peter Hegger wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>...how is it that they now consistently play at the 2700-2800 level? Against
>>>>>>>Kramnik (2810), against Bareev (2729), and now against Kasparov (2807), a
>>>>>>>program is turning in a 2807 performance and very much _holding its own_
>>>>>>>Calling any modern program a 2500 player is akin to calling the above mentioned
>>>>>>>super GM's 2500 players.
>>>>>>>It also looks to me as though the SSDF list is getting closer to the reality of
>>>>>>>the true state of program prowess than (admittedly) it use to be.
>>>>>>>Any comments welcome.
>>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>>Peter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A pity that you do not read.   Show events are NOT a possible tool to calculate
>>>>>>the strength.   And hard competition doesn't exist.   That's it.   I still hold
>>>>>>that comps are 2400 at best in fierce tournament chess.
>>>>>
>>>>>All top  chess tournaments are show events, so is every superbowl match, in fact
>>>>>every sport with spectators is a show event. You can't conclude from this that
>>>>>what you are seeing is not real.
>>>>
>>>>You mix up what I said. Ok, if you want with spectators call it show event. But
>>>>that was not what I meant. If you define all as show then we must find two new
>>>>definitions for shows like now and simuls for instance and a term for fierce
>>>>tournament chess! What I said was connected to real tournament chess WITH
>>>>participation of comps. Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>>Rolf Tueschen
>>>
>>>Okay I get it, I would like to see a broader range of opponents too but I don't
>>>think DJ would perform _worse_ under those conditions.
>>>
>>>In this "show event" Kasparov and co. can focus on one single opponent entirely,
>>> prepare each game optimally.
>>>From game to game Kasparov will know more and more of his opponent, finding its
>>>weaknesses. That should be an advantage for Kasparov, not the DJ team that,
>>>according to the rules, can only change the opening book.
>>>
>>>-S.
>>
>>
>>Yes. Of course. Alas, the mean computer experts have invented the 6 games
>>"matches" and that is too short to exploit and harvest. Let them play 48 games
>>with the same machine of course. Promissed?
>>
>>:)
>>
>>Rolf Tueschen
>
>I think the computer chess public (not sure how small that population really is
>in comparison to, say, soccer fans) would love to see a 48 game match.  I feel
>certain that I will never see it though.
>
>The fatigue factor would be just too great or the match would take place over 6
>or more months to allow the human sufficient rest time.  I doubt any super GM
>would submit to such torture unless the prize fund were really huge (like 10
>times greater than what these guys are playing for recently).  I just don't see
>any company coming up with that kind of money for such a match.  I would love to
>be proved wrong on this, but I doubt I will be.
>
>Roy

Absolutely correct. It was not a real proposal, it was just an argumentto
explain the underlying dimension. The importance of training. And the gambling
character of 6 games only. Excuse my language.

Rolf Tueschen



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