Author: Chessfun
Date: 15:16:35 02/04/03
Go up one level in this thread
On February 04, 2003 at 16:25:12, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >On February 04, 2003 at 15:55:01, Chessfun wrote: > >>On February 04, 2003 at 08:22:28, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >> >>>On February 04, 2003 at 08:07:40, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On February 04, 2003 at 01:42:21, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>>> >>>>>On February 03, 2003 at 19:05:27, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On February 03, 2003 at 18:54:54, Peter Hegger wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>...how is it that they now consistently play at the 2700-2800 level? Against >>>>>>>Kramnik (2810), against Bareev (2729), and now against Kasparov (2807), a >>>>>>>program is turning in a 2807 performance and very much _holding its own_ >>>>>>>Calling any modern program a 2500 player is akin to calling the above mentioned >>>>>>>super GM's 2500 players. >>>>>>>It also looks to me as though the SSDF list is getting closer to the reality of >>>>>>>the true state of program prowess than (admittedly) it use to be. >>>>>>>Any comments welcome. >>>>>>>Regards, >>>>>>>Peter >>>>>> >>>>>>A pity that you do not read. Show events are NOT a possible tool to calculate >>>>>>the strength. And hard competition doesn't exist. That's it. I still hold >>>>>>that comps are 2400 at best in fierce tournament chess. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Rolf Tueschen >>>>> >>>>>Hi Rolf >>>>>I agree for the simple reason that spoken for myself (1980-200O ELO) I still get >>>>>a score of about 30 percent vs the top programs, of course without playing >>>>>anticomputerchess. And if the comps should have 2700 ELO and more, it would >>>>>almost be impossible for me to get a draw. Please also have a look at >>>>>http://www.skpfaeffikon.ch/Utzinger/Downloads/MyChessViewer/man.htm >>>>>Kurt >>>> >>>>I do not know. >>>> >>>>It is possible that you can get also 30% against 2700 players and it is also >>>>possible that your style is better against computers. >>>> >>>>It is possible that a player has a style that let him to get 50% against 2000 >>>>players and 30% against 2700 players. >>>> >>>>I have similiar elo to your elo but I do not think that I can get 30% against >>>>the top programs. >>>> >>>>It may be interesting to know how much can you get against Movei without special >>>>anti computer style(Movei is not at the level that it can get 30% against the >>>>top programs). >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>Never would I get 30 % against 2700 players, that's the point I argue that >>>something must be wrong with the high ELO ratings of the top programs. If I find >>>the time I would like to make the following experiment: let play a well known >>>(top solid) club collegue with over 2100 ELO vs some top programs. I am almost >>>sure he will not lose more than 4-6. This man is much stronger than myself but >>>has somewhat the same quiet style, being able to hold a position balanced. And >>>as to Movei: it could happen that my results are worse than vs Fritz8, Shredder7 >>>and so on. To demonstrate what I mean the following example: My feared opponent >>>is the good old MchessPro 8.0 with one single draw for me out of six games!! >>>Kurt >> >> >>Anytime you wish to try the "experiment" I will play your friend from my account >>at Chess.net,"G-N-U". >> >>Personally I am now convinced that professional programs are clearly of super GM >>strength, maybe not in the same way but by performance alone they would qualify. >> >>I myself have posted wins of mine against top programs and posted the first two >>games I played against Rebel Century 4 at the beta forum but for me it isn't >>it's strength against me that counts. Could a PC program like any human qualify >>and hold it's super GM rating over a period of time, IMO all data suggests >>strongly that it could. >> >>Sarah. > >Could you please send us all the games or give us the exact link? Thanks so >much. Apologies it was Century 3 not 4. Note these were blitz 5/0. The game I posted here against Deep Fritz 6 I think it was I can't find as I lost a lot of files recently when I switched PC's. I did a search of Archives but couldn't find it. It was about an hour later than Eduard posted a similar win. [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "??.??.????"] [Round "?"] [White "Sarah"] [Black "CENTURY 3.0"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [ECO "D00"] 1. d4 d5 2. c3 Nf6 3. e3 Bf5 4. f4 e6 5. Nf3 Nbd7 6. Bd3 Bxd3 7. Qxd3 c5 8. O-O c4 9. Qc2 Bd6 10. b4 O-O 11. a4 a5 12. b5 Ne4 13. Nbd2 Ndf6 14. Nxe4 Nxe4 15. Nd2 f5 16. Ba3 Bxa3 17. Rxa3 Qe7 18. Raa1 b6 19. Nxe4 fxe4 20. Qf2 Rf7 21. Qg3 Raf8 22. Ra2 Qd6 23. Qe1 g6 24. Qc1 Qe7 25. Qa3 Qxa3 26. Rxa3 g5 27. g3 Kg7 28. Ra2 h5 29. Rg2 g4 30. Rgf2 Kg6 31. Kg2 Kf5 32. Kg1 Rh7 33. Rg2 h4 34. Kh1 Rfh8 35. Rff2 h3 36. Rg1 Kf6 37. Rgf1 Rh5 38. Kg1 Rf8 39. Re1 Ke7 40. Ref1 Rhf5 41. Re1 Kd7 42. Ref1 Kd6 43. Re1 R5f6 44. Ref1 R8f7 * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "??.??.????"] [Round "?"] [White "Sarah"] [Black "CENTURY 3.0"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [ECO "A45"] 1. d4 Nf6 2. f4 d5 3. e3 Bf5 4. Nf3 e6 5. c3 Nbd7 6. Bd3 Bxd3 7. Qxd3 c5 8. O-O c4 9. Qc2 Bd6 10. b4 O-O 11. a4 a5 12. b5 Ne4 13. Nbd2 Ndf6 14. Nxe4 Nxe4 15. Ba3 Bxa3 16. Rxa3 f6 17. Nd2 Nxd2 18. Qxd2 g6 19. Ra2 Rc8 20. Qf2 f5 21. h4 b6 22. g3 Rc7 23. Qf3 Rg7 24. Qd1 Re8 25. Kh2 Qc7 26. Qc1 Rf7 27. Qa3 Ref8 28. Raf2 h6 29. Kh1 Re8 30. Rh2 Kh7 31. Kg2 Rg7 32. Kf2 Ree7 33. Rfh1 Rg8 34. Rg1 Rf7 35. Rgh1 Rfg7 36. Rg1 Re7 37. Rhg2 Rf7 38. Rh2 Rfg7 39. Rhg2 Rd8 40. Rh2 Qd7 41. Rhg2 Re8 42. Rh2 Rc8 43. Rhg2 Rd8 44. Rh2 Re8 45. Rhg2 Rc8 46. Rh2 Ra8 47. Rhg2 Rb8 48. Rh2 Rh8 * Sarah.
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