Author: Peter Kappler
Date: 10:17:06 02/16/03
Go up one level in this thread
On February 16, 2003 at 12:12:54, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On February 16, 2003 at 09:36:28, Rolf Tueschen wrote: > >>On February 16, 2003 at 07:59:54, Amir Ban wrote: >> >>>On February 15, 2003 at 13:06:55, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I disagree with the "played like a super-GM" player, however. I doubt you >>>>will find _any_ 2200 FIDE player that would play as badly as DJ played in >>>>the first three games, up until move 30 or so. Game 1 would not have been >>>>played by any 2000 player I know, myself included. So saying that it has >>>>super-GM positional understanding is _way_ _way_ offbase. Yes, it played >>>>good moves at times. But it also played _horrible_ moves at times. And I >>>>am not just talking about tactically horrible moves such as the blunders that >>>>Kasparov dropped on the board, I am talking about moves such as taking the >>>>g-pawn and getting exposed to a horrific attack. >>>> >>> >>>I can't agree with any of this. >>> >>>It would be good to back the statement that Junior played the "first three >>>games, up until move 30 or so" worse than 2200 with some concrete examples of >>>where a 2200 player would play better. The three games lasted 27, 30 & 36 moves, >>>so what does this mean at all ? >>> >>>The one example you give, of 10... Nxg4 in game three, is wrong. Taking the pawn >>>is the only move that does not lose quickly. I assume that what you prefer is >>>what crafty would play, which I see is 10... h6. I don't know if this is >>>apparent to a 2200 player, but 10... h6 11. g5 is hopeless for black. Crafty >>>does not even expect 11. g5. >>> >>>The picture you give of Kasparov missing won positions due to making "tactically >>>horrible moves" against an opponent who shows tactical resilience (while playing >>>like a positional patzer) simply did not happen in this match. Maybe you have >>>been watching crafty on ICC, but not Deep Junior in NYC. >>> >>>Kasparov did not make any real blunders in this match, at least not the way I >>>understand "blunder" as a move that he and much lesser players would in normal >>>circumstances easily avoid. Kasparov's motives in describing his mistakes as >>>"fingerfehlers" are obvious, since if they were so, then they somehow don't >>>count and we have to count the games he lost as surely drawn, and those he drew >>>as surely won, but we don't have to buy that. >>> >>>To describe 32. Rh5 of game 3 as a blunder is a gross misrepresentation. It >>>misses a rather spectacular mate possibility. Not something that one sees in a >>>blitz game (not even Eduard Nemeth). >>> >>>Calling 25... Qa1+ of game 2 a blunder is really stretching it. Kasparov, by his >>>own words, worked it out to a forced win, but missed a rook check 18 ply down >>>the road. This is not a blunder but a hard luck story. Anderssen's combination >>>in the Evergreen Game was not as deep. Would we accept Dufrense saying "I was >>>totally winning but blundered and allowed Rd1" ? >>> >>>Amir >> >>Thank you for the many opinions. I hope that the debate will be a serious and >>lively debate. I want to add - of course with extreme humility - the point of >>the Bxh2. Did you forget the many questions here? Just to give the Black&White >>picture a little bit of color. >> >>Rolf Tueschen > > >That seemed to be very good, and a move my program was not going to find, which >only means I have more work to do. However, I'm a bit concerned about making >a great move here and an ugly move there. The ugly move there will hurt more >than the great move here, in the long run, if the goal is to play at the top of >the heap (Super-GM chess). At that level, one bad move is generally all it >takes, while it might take several consecutive great moves just to hang on. Bxh2 certainly made for a fun game, but it is not a sound sacrifice. There are some tricky lines that most mortals wouldn't find at the board, but White is definitely winning. -Peter
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