Author: Rolf Tueschen
Date: 15:58:13 02/18/03
Go up one level in this thread
On February 18, 2003 at 18:19:43, Chessfun wrote: >On February 18, 2003 at 18:09:40, Rolf Tueschen wrote: > >>On February 18, 2003 at 18:04:06, Chessfun wrote: >> >>>On February 18, 2003 at 17:51:52, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>> >>>>On February 18, 2003 at 17:47:02, Chessfun wrote: >>>> >>>>>On February 18, 2003 at 17:09:08, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On February 18, 2003 at 16:57:59, Chessfun wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On February 15, 2003 at 15:38:30, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On February 15, 2003 at 15:26:13, Chessfun wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On February 15, 2003 at 14:52:10, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On February 15, 2003 at 14:34:31, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Answer me this, What Difference Does it make if you play more >>>>>>>>>>>>positional chess, if you cannot defeated me?? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>If that were the case, I would agree. But by the same token, do you want >>>>>>>>>>>your program to play 30 brilliant moves and one lemon move, over and over? >>>>>>>>>>>That one lemon will drag your performance _way_ down at the top of the rating >>>>>>>>>>>scale. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Bob, may I point out with humility that this is exactly my weak-chain argument? >>>>>>>>>>Finally we are on the point. Did you ever reflect what would happen if >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - in a really recompensating money atmosphere and >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - after top players adopted specific comp related chess? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>And that on the base of a known permanent weakness? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>That is the point. And not the typical hype based on show events /commercials. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>What is you impression with the GM play on ICC? But note, Roman D. had to face >>>>>>>>>>an always changed version [on the base of his own hints]. Guess what will happen >>>>>>>>>>if several top GM work hard on a counter strategy against comps, in other words >>>>>>>>>>if GM adopt 'Eduard'... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>You clearly have no clue as to what actually happens. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Note that nobody here must come with humility! It was a bit irony by me. But - >>>>>>>>you are a bit too respectless. Why? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Here you completely miss my point. You should read it again and always think >>>>>>>>about tournament times. Not Blitz. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>You seem to have finally answered your own question. >>>>>>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?285129 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sarah >>>>>> >>>>>>I don't understand what you might possibly mean. Because here to you and there >>>>>>to Matthew Hull I always said the same. Bob can't have spoken about tournament >>>>>>chess. Crafty is NOT playing tournament chess on ICC. So you are wrong and also >>>>>>Matthew is wrong because he wanted to take Bob as if he had said that for >>>>>>tournament chess they are GM. Wrong - Bob said the opposite. >>>>>> >>>>>>Let's wait until Bob says what he meant. :) >>>>>> >>>>>>Rolf Tueschen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>In this thread you ask about Crafties performance against GM's, then state you >>>>>meant at Tournament times. Then you acknowledge in another thread Crafty don't >>>>>play tournament times. >>>> >>>>You are making me nervous. Not I said that but Matthew. Then I opposed. He >>>>insisted and then indeed I asked Bob. But originally I did not ask Bob. :) >>>> >>>>Ionescu. >>>> >>>>Rolf Tueschen >>>> >>> >>>You asked about Crafties results on ICC. >>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?284469 >>> >>>I replied with Blitz numbers, you then said you were talking about tournament >>>times, then acknowledge that it don't play tournament times. >>> >>>Then what was the point of your original statement? >>> >> >>Sarah, >>it was about Bob's old and correct statement, that comps are already "better" >>than humans at Blitz, but NOT in tournament mode. Therefore he also opposed Amir >>who was dreaming about DJ playing as a super GM.... Then came Matthew etc... >> >>Rolf Tueschen > >That don't explain why you then asked Dr. Hyatt this time I'll quote; > >"What is you impression with the GM play on ICC? But note, Roman D. had to face >an always changed version [on the base of his own hints]. Guess what will happen >if several top GM work hard on a counter strategy against comps, in other words >if GM adopt 'Eduard'..." > >I then posted blitz results which confirmed Dr. Hyatts old statements first >sentence. You stated you meant tournament controls. > >And then you acknowledge that it don't play tourney controls on ICC. >http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?285129 > >Again then what would be the point in your statement I quoted when Crafty don't >play tournement controls?. > >Maybe we're losing something in language here but seems clear enough to me. > Don't worry, this is not language here. You are absolutely right with your interpretation, thanks for the exact reading. You are a real exception. Funny for me when I realized it. Ok here's my explanation. Talking with Bob. We had many topics over the years. Long ago Bob told me, I think it was on rgcc, that GM Roman would communicate with him and making hints for a better chess. So he says - for example - as long as Crafty does not understand that a pawn on the 6th line, then it has no chance against any GM. So, then Bob is doing something for that single question. Then Roman does a little testing. In short - talking about GM Roman HERE didn't mean refering to BLITZ vs TOURNAMENT, because GM Roman was more in analysis mode! But of course playing still with a time schedule of Blitz. You see, he even created special accounts to do such things without being followed by fans. That is the background, only a bit of it. The exact phrase above means something more. I simply criticise since long that if you change a program on a daily base then "some" points might result of these changes. And still - - I am very sure, that if a group of GM would develop a comp related chess on a deep level THEN you could tweak and twist as much as you liked, the GM would kill them. I know it and I think everybody above expert level in chess knows it. But why should they do that? Top players are masters of human chess. Proving that they could crush comps is really not inspiring. For the show, yes. But not in serious chess events. Eduard or people like him have a different perspective. Look, I already played thousands of games myself against comp progs! Just because I am not invited for Linares for example. :) Finally, yes, you proved that I was writing in a hurry and I was a bit inconsistent in my phrasing, please pardon me. You can be happy that you must not talk with me because in general I have wide gaps in my fast speech. Either you would find me hopelessly crazy or you would be inspired to travel yourself. What is your personal record using a telephone? (I'm still on 18 hours nonstop, that was in 1986.) Thanks for the discovery. Normally I do it the other way round. :) Rolf Tueschen >Sarah. > > > > > >>>Sarah. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Matters not whether Dr. Hyatt says it does or it doesn't. >>>>> >>>>>Sarah. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Roman may be good against comps and there are other GM's and IM's that are, and >>>>>>>>>there are also many, that try daily over and over and over and simply see loss >>>>>>>>>after loss after loss. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Scrappy has been playing jnogueiras who is GM Jesús Nogueiras Santiago >>>>>>>>>for days and scrappy has been slaughtering him. While IM Alexis Cabrera handle >>>>>>>>>Minotauro has for the most part scored about even. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Point being that some maybe able to adapt their game to an anti-computer type >>>>>>>>>play (trading pieces etc) others never manage despite playing endlessly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sarah. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Only then, and that is my argument since long, the actual commercial progs begin >>>>>>>>>>to SUCK. But on a permanent base! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>My questions to Amir went a bit in the same direction. Let's see how far the >>>>>>>>>>experts can open their mind. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Rolf Tueschen
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