Author: Aaron Gordon
Date: 17:31:00 02/22/03
Go up one level in this thread
On February 22, 2003 at 20:22:38, Charles Worthington wrote: >On February 22, 2003 at 18:16:43, Aaron Gordon wrote: > >>On February 22, 2003 at 16:43:58, Matt Taylor wrote: >> >>>On February 22, 2003 at 11:31:52, Charles Worthington wrote: >>> >>>>On February 22, 2003 at 03:32:59, Matt Taylor wrote: >>>> >>>>>On February 22, 2003 at 01:13:00, Charles Worthington wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On February 22, 2003 at 01:05:46, Aaron Gordon wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On February 22, 2003 at 00:31:38, Charles Worthington wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 23:52:51, Charles Worthington wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On Febronuary 21, 2003 at 23:48:41, Charles Worthington wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 19:57:10, Aaron Gordon wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 18:02:39, Charles Worthington wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 17:37:35, Aaron Gordon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 08:04:18, Mike Byrne wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 08:02:34, Mike Byrne wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 07:14:47, Charles Worthington wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 07:05:22, Charles Worthington wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 06:47:11, Mike Byrne wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 04:46:53, Charles Worthington wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob what program is required for me to conduct benchmark tests with Crafty? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Could you please e-mail it or post a link here to it? Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Charles, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You have it, the "crafty" program has a built in benchmark ....start crafty in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dos mode (console) with no crafty.rc file ( a plain taxt file you create with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>engine parameters - but in this case - do not have a crafty.rc file in the same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>directory as crafty). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Type word "bench" at the command prompt. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks Mike. I haven't set the Crafty you sent me up yet so I didn't know. In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all honesty I have no Idea how to set it up to run on the Chessbase server. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Crafty that comes with fritz is already set up so I have never had to set one up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>yet. The other foreign progs are easy just drop in the eng and dll and you are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>done. This does not look so easy. :-) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>640 kNs.....Not good :-) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on your new machine?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>ok I see it in your title ...that is respectable for 1.2Ghz Celeron -- it's in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>the ballpark -- I think a dual 3 Ghz will get 3M nps.... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Hyatts Dual xeon 2.8GHz only gets 2.1 million in the benchmark.. >>>>>>>>>>>>>If you scale it up to 3.06x2 + HT you'll only see about 2.3 million. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Crafty v19.4 (1 cpus) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>White(1): mt=4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>max threads set to 4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>White(1): bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>Running benchmark. . . >>>>>>>>>>>>>...... >>>>>>>>>>>>>Total nodes: 104415743 >>>>>>>>>>>>>Raw nodes per second: 2130933 >>>>>>>>>>>>>Total elapsed time: 49 >>>>>>>>>>>>>SMP time-to-ply measurement: 13.061224 >>>>>>>>>>>>>White(1): end >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Thats good to know aaron but i never said i would pull 3 million with crafty. I >>>>>>>>>>>>run fritz primarily. I may experiment some with crafty though. where are u >>>>>>>>>>>>getting a 3000kNs figure? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Mike mentioned 3000kN/s. By the way, from what I've seen Crafty will get more >>>>>>>>>>>kN/s than Fritz will. Crafty has better support for HT, too. The only way you >>>>>>>>>>>will come close to 3 million is by using an AMD system. Those don't need HT and >>>>>>>>>>>are fast already. Crafty gets 1.3 million nodes/sec on a P4-3.06GHz with HT, >>>>>>>>>>>1.8x speedup and you've got just over 2.3 million nodes/sec, just as Hyatt has >>>>>>>>>>>shown us here with his 2.8's. Now, you don't get to use HT (well, it's not >>>>>>>>>>>useful yet) in Deep Fritz. Take my CPU for example. I get about 1.6 million >>>>>>>>>>>nodes/sec in crafty's benchmark. 1.6 million * 1.7 speedup = 2.72 million >>>>>>>>>>>nodes/sec. This will also be quick for Deep Fritz, too. If you want speed and >>>>>>>>>>>don't mind pushing your chips a little (only 10% overlock, not much at all) >>>>>>>>>>>you'll have the fastest box. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Considering the motherboard will be $150 and each chip is less than $100 thats a >>>>>>>>>>>pretty good deal. ~$1000 for a system that gets 2.72 million nodes/sec without >>>>>>>>>>>any HT help OR $4000-5000 for a system that gets 2.31 million and has to support >>>>>>>>>>>HT. I don't know about you but the decision is pretty clear to me.. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>well actually aaron i just watched one of the guys from ccc here in playchess >>>>>>>>>>with a dual 2600mp and he was pulling 1995 kNs with deep fritz 7 and was >>>>>>>>>>overclocked to over 2800...I saved the game and the kNs posted by the >>>>>>>>>>server...and it was more than one game as he was getting demolished by a 2.2 ghz >>>>>>>>>>p4 single. Oh and BTW i dont need 3.06 to beat that...Bob's 2.8's will pull 2250 >>>>>>>>>>themselves. You guys can make all the wild claims here you like but the fritz >>>>>>>>>>server tells on you every time. The 3.06 dual will be here next week so If an >>>>>>>>>>amd system here can get a higher kNs i want to see it on the server where it >>>>>>>>>>counts but u had better do a whole bunch of overclocking and get those cpu's >>>>>>>>>>steaming. You would have to be dilusional to believe that AMD 2600MP is superior >>>>>>>>>>to a high end Intel Workstation. And I don't need a Degree in computer science >>>>>>>>>>to figure that one out. Just a little observation on the server will do. So if >>>>>>>>>>you can outpost the xeons dont tell me...come show me..then i will be the first >>>>>>>>>>to come back here and congratulate you... :-) Of course it wont happen so... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Oh and also i almost forgot There were others from here that witnessed it too >>>>>>>>>along with the speed he claimed to get here...the two wern't even close. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Oh and i also believe that if AMD had the technology or the research funds to >>>>>>>>have invented hyperthreading technology...they would have. it doesnt take a >>>>>>>>rocket scientist to see that two threads are better than one for multiple >>>>>>>>applications. So i will keep the 2600 dollar pair of xeons if you don't mind. >>>>>>>>Besides i wasnt looking to save money i was looking for a good machine that >>>>>>>>didn't_have_to be overclocked to get 2500 kNs. Had I been searching for an >>>>>>>>economical system i would have chosen the AMD. But I would have lived with what >>>>>>>>I had and not tried to fry eggs on it. :-)) Not everyone here wants 100.00 >>>>>>>>cpu's. Thats why there are two markets... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>As koibito pointed out two XP's in SMP configuration are slower than two MP's. >>>>>>>Also I've already done the comparison. Koibito (dual athlons @ 2.31) gets more >>>>>>>nodes/second than hyatts box. Also, my old AthlonXP 1.6 @ 1.86GHz beat Hyatts >>>>>>>dual Xeon running Crafty? Does that make my machine better than his? Sure >>>>>>>doesn't. Programs, books, hash sizes, etc were all different. If you take the >>>>>>>exact same program with the same settings faster will better. There's no way >>>>>>>that single P4 is faster than his dual and that single P4 gets barely half of >>>>>>>what my cpu gets in chess stuff. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Also, did koibito play a few hundred games against that P4? Did they use the >>>>>>>exact same program and settings? You can't make ANY conclusions about speed >>>>>>>based off what you've seen in those 1-2 games you saw. If you do then go ahead >>>>>>>and assume my old XP 1.86 is better than hyatts xeons.. it's not true but go >>>>>>>ahead anyway, you did the same with the dual Athlon box. ;) >>>>>> >>>>>>actually i never said her machine was faster than his duals...you werent paying >>>>>>attention. i said her single cpu was beating him every game...not that it was >>>>>>faster...what I_did_say was that his kNs there was waaay lower than what he >>>>>>claimed it was here. Nothing more. Everyone is posting unreasonably high figures >>>>>>here. Tell us what the machine really does within the bounds of the laws of >>>>>>physics...not what you_wish_it would do. I wish mine would get 10,000 kNs but it >>>>>>wont. And until something comes out that will get that speed I will be happy to >>>>>>stick with whatever is best at the time and not have to roast marshmallows on my >>>>>>processors. :-)) >>>>> >>>>>Roasting marshmallows is a bit outdated. That was when Athlon was competing with >>>>>the Pentium 3. The Pentium 4 actually dissipates more heat than Athlon. >>>>> >>>>>-Matt >>>> >>>> >>>>I was only referring to overclocked high end Athlons Matt. >>> >>>The last time I checked thermal data was after the release of the Thoroughbred >>>core (up to AthlonXP 2200). The high-end Athlon part was about 1-2W warmer than >>>the high-end Pentium 4 part (2.53 GHz). I believe the Pentium 4 figures compared >>>were also nominal dissipation values which would imply that the high-end Athlon >>>was actually cooler. >>> >>>Right now Intel claims the Pentium 4 3.06 GHz dissipates 81.8W of heat. I'm not >>>sure whether that is average or maximum so I am making the assumption that it is >>>maximum. The AthlonXP 2700 (2.16 GHz) dissipates 68.3W of heat maximum. I don't >>>have data for the AthlonXP 2800 or AthlonXP 3000, but I doubt either produces >>>even 80W of heat. >>> >>>Pentium 4 - http://www.intel.com/support/processors/pentium4/thermal.htm >>>Athlon - http://www.doerte-richter.de/mulle-78/AMD/amd_term_power.htm >>> >>>-Matt >> >>The 81 watt figure is the average wattage, 110 watts is the maximum figure. In >>Intels Pentium 4 tech docs under the wattage listing it says this: >> >>"The numbers in this column reflect Intel’s recommended design point and are not >>indicative of the maximum power the processor can dissipate under worst case >>conditions. For more details refer to the Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor in the >>478-Pin Package Thermal Design Guidelines." > > >I am unfamiliar with the Athlon XP3000. Is it a 3 GHz single cpu? and why aren't >we seeing it in the field yet? It's the Barton chip, 2.16GHz(3000+) with 512K of L2 cache, 166fsb(333DDR). 2800+ is the 2.25GHz Thoroughbred core, 256K L2 and 166fsb(333DDR).
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