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Subject: Re: Back to reality...

Author: Aaron Gordon

Date: 17:31:00 02/22/03

Go up one level in this thread


On February 22, 2003 at 20:22:38, Charles Worthington wrote:

>On February 22, 2003 at 18:16:43, Aaron Gordon wrote:
>
>>On February 22, 2003 at 16:43:58, Matt Taylor wrote:
>>
>>>On February 22, 2003 at 11:31:52, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 22, 2003 at 03:32:59, Matt Taylor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 22, 2003 at 01:13:00, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On February 22, 2003 at 01:05:46, Aaron Gordon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On February 22, 2003 at 00:31:38, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 23:52:51, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Febronuary 21, 2003 at 23:48:41, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 19:57:10, Aaron Gordon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 18:02:39, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 17:37:35, Aaron Gordon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 08:04:18, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 08:02:34, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 07:14:47, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 07:05:22, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 06:47:11, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 04:46:53, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob what program is required for me to conduct benchmark tests with Crafty?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Could you please e-mail it or post a link here to it? Thank you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Charles,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You have it, the "crafty" program has a built in benchmark ....start crafty in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dos mode (console) with no crafty.rc file ( a plain taxt file you create with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>engine parameters - but in this case - do not have a crafty.rc file in the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>directory as crafty).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Type word "bench" at the command prompt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mike
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks Mike. I haven't set the Crafty you sent me up yet so I didn't know. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all honesty I have no Idea  how to set it up to run on the Chessbase server. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Crafty that comes with fritz is already set up so I have never had to set one up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>yet. The other foreign progs are easy just drop in the  eng and dll and you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>done. This does not look so easy. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>640 kNs.....Not good :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on your new  machine??
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ok I see it in your title ...that is respectable for 1.2Ghz Celeron -- it's in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the ballpark -- I think a dual 3 Ghz will get 3M nps....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hyatts Dual xeon 2.8GHz only gets 2.1 million in the benchmark..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you scale it up to 3.06x2 + HT you'll only see about 2.3 million.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Crafty v19.4 (1 cpus)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>White(1): mt=4
>>>>>>>>>>>>>max threads set to 4
>>>>>>>>>>>>>White(1): bench
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Running benchmark. . .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>......
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Total nodes: 104415743
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Raw nodes per second: 2130933
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Total elapsed time: 49
>>>>>>>>>>>>>SMP time-to-ply measurement: 13.061224
>>>>>>>>>>>>>White(1): end
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Thats good to know aaron but i never said i would pull 3 million with crafty. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>run fritz primarily. I may experiment some with crafty though. where are u
>>>>>>>>>>>>getting a 3000kNs figure?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Mike mentioned 3000kN/s. By the way, from what I've seen Crafty will get more
>>>>>>>>>>>kN/s than Fritz will. Crafty has better support for HT, too. The only way you
>>>>>>>>>>>will come close to 3 million is by using an AMD system. Those don't need HT and
>>>>>>>>>>>are fast already. Crafty gets 1.3 million nodes/sec on a P4-3.06GHz with HT,
>>>>>>>>>>>1.8x speedup and you've got just over 2.3 million nodes/sec, just as Hyatt has
>>>>>>>>>>>shown us here with his 2.8's. Now, you don't get to use HT (well, it's not
>>>>>>>>>>>useful yet) in Deep Fritz. Take my CPU for example. I get about 1.6 million
>>>>>>>>>>>nodes/sec in crafty's benchmark. 1.6 million * 1.7 speedup = 2.72 million
>>>>>>>>>>>nodes/sec. This will also be quick for Deep Fritz, too. If you want speed and
>>>>>>>>>>>don't mind pushing your chips a little (only 10% overlock, not much at all)
>>>>>>>>>>>you'll have the fastest box.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Considering the motherboard will be $150 and each chip is less than $100 thats a
>>>>>>>>>>>pretty good deal. ~$1000 for a system that gets 2.72 million nodes/sec without
>>>>>>>>>>>any HT help OR $4000-5000 for a system that gets 2.31 million and has to support
>>>>>>>>>>>HT. I don't know about you but the decision is pretty clear to me..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>well actually aaron i just watched one of the guys from ccc here in playchess
>>>>>>>>>>with a dual 2600mp and he was pulling 1995 kNs with deep fritz 7 and was
>>>>>>>>>>overclocked to over 2800...I saved the game and the kNs posted by the
>>>>>>>>>>server...and it was more than one game as he was getting demolished by a 2.2 ghz
>>>>>>>>>>p4 single. Oh and BTW i dont need 3.06 to beat that...Bob's 2.8's will pull 2250
>>>>>>>>>>themselves. You guys can make all the wild claims here you like but the fritz
>>>>>>>>>>server tells on you every time. The 3.06 dual will be here next week so If an
>>>>>>>>>>amd system here can get a higher kNs i want to see it on the server where it
>>>>>>>>>>counts but u had better do a whole bunch of overclocking and get those cpu's
>>>>>>>>>>steaming. You would have to be dilusional to believe that AMD 2600MP is superior
>>>>>>>>>>to a high end Intel Workstation. And I don't need a Degree in computer science
>>>>>>>>>>to figure that one out. Just a little observation on the server will do. So if
>>>>>>>>>>you can outpost the xeons dont tell me...come show me..then i will be the first
>>>>>>>>>>to come back here and congratulate you... :-) Of course it wont happen so...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Oh and also i almost forgot There were others from here that witnessed it too
>>>>>>>>>along with the speed he claimed to get here...the two wern't even close.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Oh and i also believe that if AMD had the technology or the research funds to
>>>>>>>>have invented hyperthreading technology...they would have. it doesnt take a
>>>>>>>>rocket scientist to see that two threads are better than one for multiple
>>>>>>>>applications. So i will keep the 2600 dollar pair of xeons if you don't mind.
>>>>>>>>Besides i wasnt looking to save money i was looking for a good machine that
>>>>>>>>didn't_have_to be overclocked to get 2500 kNs. Had I been searching for an
>>>>>>>>economical system i would have chosen the AMD. But I would have lived with what
>>>>>>>>I had and not tried to fry eggs on it. :-)) Not everyone here wants 100.00
>>>>>>>>cpu's. Thats why there are two markets...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>As koibito pointed out two XP's in SMP configuration are slower than two MP's.
>>>>>>>Also I've already done the comparison. Koibito (dual athlons @ 2.31) gets more
>>>>>>>nodes/second than hyatts box. Also, my old AthlonXP 1.6 @ 1.86GHz beat Hyatts
>>>>>>>dual Xeon running Crafty? Does that make my machine better than his? Sure
>>>>>>>doesn't. Programs, books, hash sizes, etc were all different. If you take the
>>>>>>>exact same program with the same settings faster will better. There's no way
>>>>>>>that single P4 is faster than his dual and that single P4 gets barely half of
>>>>>>>what my cpu gets in chess stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Also, did koibito play a few hundred games against that P4? Did they use the
>>>>>>>exact same program and settings? You can't make ANY conclusions about speed
>>>>>>>based off what you've seen in those 1-2 games you saw. If you do then go ahead
>>>>>>>and assume my old XP 1.86 is better than hyatts xeons.. it's not true but go
>>>>>>>ahead anyway, you did the same with the dual Athlon box. ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>actually i never said her machine was faster than his duals...you werent paying
>>>>>>attention. i said her single cpu was beating him every game...not that it was
>>>>>>faster...what I_did_say was that his kNs there was waaay lower than what he
>>>>>>claimed it was here. Nothing more. Everyone is posting unreasonably high figures
>>>>>>here. Tell us what the machine really does within the bounds of the laws of
>>>>>>physics...not what you_wish_it would do. I wish mine would get 10,000 kNs but it
>>>>>>wont. And until something comes out that will get that speed I will be happy to
>>>>>>stick with whatever is best at the time and not have to roast marshmallows on my
>>>>>>processors. :-))
>>>>>
>>>>>Roasting marshmallows is a bit outdated. That was when Athlon was competing with
>>>>>the Pentium 3. The Pentium 4 actually dissipates more heat than Athlon.
>>>>>
>>>>>-Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I was only referring to overclocked high end Athlons Matt.
>>>
>>>The last time I checked thermal data was after the release of the Thoroughbred
>>>core (up to AthlonXP 2200). The high-end Athlon part was about 1-2W warmer than
>>>the high-end Pentium 4 part (2.53 GHz). I believe the Pentium 4 figures compared
>>>were also nominal dissipation values which would imply that the high-end Athlon
>>>was actually cooler.
>>>
>>>Right now Intel claims the Pentium 4 3.06 GHz dissipates 81.8W of heat. I'm not
>>>sure whether that is average or maximum so I am making the assumption that it is
>>>maximum. The AthlonXP 2700 (2.16 GHz) dissipates 68.3W of heat maximum. I don't
>>>have data for the AthlonXP 2800 or AthlonXP 3000, but I doubt either produces
>>>even 80W of heat.
>>>
>>>Pentium 4 - http://www.intel.com/support/processors/pentium4/thermal.htm
>>>Athlon - http://www.doerte-richter.de/mulle-78/AMD/amd_term_power.htm
>>>
>>>-Matt
>>
>>The 81 watt figure is the average wattage, 110 watts is the maximum figure. In
>>Intels Pentium 4 tech docs under the wattage listing it says this:
>>
>>"The numbers in this column reflect Intel’s recommended design point and are not
>>indicative of the maximum power the processor can dissipate under worst case
>>conditions. For more details refer to the Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor in the
>>478-Pin Package Thermal Design Guidelines."
>
>
>I am unfamiliar with the Athlon XP3000. Is it a 3 GHz single cpu? and why aren't
>we seeing it in the field yet?

It's the Barton chip, 2.16GHz(3000+) with 512K of L2 cache, 166fsb(333DDR).
2800+ is the 2.25GHz Thoroughbred core, 256K L2 and 166fsb(333DDR).



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