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Subject: Re: Cat scratcher? :)

Author: Matt Taylor

Date: 00:10:48 03/08/03

Go up one level in this thread


On March 05, 2003 at 18:11:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On March 05, 2003 at 15:13:41, Aaron Gordon wrote:
>
>>On March 05, 2003 at 11:36:30, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On March 05, 2003 at 02:05:30, Aaron Gordon wrote:
>>>
>>>>On March 04, 2003 at 21:57:58, Nolan Denson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>There are no draw backs when looking to get a computer that using
>>>>>Hyper-Threading. If you do not like the feature you can just simply turn it off.
>>>>>There are many system on the market that claims to be Hyper Threading enabled.
>>>>>Intel has a utility program that checks for Hyper Threading ...
>>>>>
>>>>>1. You must have the proper CPU's.
>>>>>2. You must have the proper motherboard.
>>>>>3. You bios must support it.
>>>>>4. Your Operating system must support it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Once these things are met your system will indicate that Hyper Threading is
>>>>>enable before booting into the Operating System.
>>>>>
>>>>>It is not an indication that you will see when the computer is turned on and the
>>>>>Bios is posting.
>>>>>
>>>>>Soon all of Intel processcor's will have Hyper Threading. So if what you are
>>>>>using your processor slows down with Hyper Threading, just simply turn it off
>>>>>via the Bios.
>>>>
>>>>How convenient. Have to reboot 20 times per day to turn it on/off just so your
>>>>applications run optimally. I'll be sticking with the cooler running, faster,
>>>>and cheaper AMD chips. :)
>>>
>>>You don't have to do this.  Just use an SMT aware operating system and just run
>>>two
>>>tasks, although I think there is _zero_ chance that a parallel algorithm that
>>>works with
>>>two threads on a dual processor will behave _worse_ using two threads on a
>>>single SMT
>>>cpu than it does using just one thread.  SMT is not going to _worsen_
>>>performance,
>>>particularly if spinlocks and spinwaits are used correctly.  Since most programs
>>>don't even
>>>use 'em, it isn't an issue at all.
>>
>>If you read around you'll see when SMT is enabled it can hurt performance up to
>>20% just as it helps in some cases up to 20%. Be it SMT or bad programming, it
>>does it. I dislike P4's anyway (hot, slow, etc) and if there's something that
>>can potentially hurt it's performance even more.. well, it's time to glue the
>>cpu to the wall and let the cat use it as a cat scratcher. Thats about all it'd
>>be worth to me.
>
>
>SMT can _not_ hurt performance if you only run one thread.  Which I believe I
>clearly said.  If you run on an SMT-aware O/S, and have a dual xeon with SMT
>on or off, you will get the _same_ results for any pair of applications you care
>to
>run if you only run two compute threads total, one will run on each physical CPU
>and there is no interaction.
>
>I don't see how SMT can hurt a program, unless it is using a lot of
>spinlocks/spinwaits and
>it doesn't follow the "fix" posted by Intel.  A sloppy spinlock/spinwait can
>certainly hurt,
>but then the same program running two threads on a single CPU would do _badly_
>as
>well, so it is a problem either way.

You mean using all available processors. If it's one thread, other programs can
compete for limited resources such as execution bandwidth and trace cache space.

-Matt



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