Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 09:38:38 10/13/98
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On October 13, 1998 at 12:13:21, Bruce Moreland wrote: > >On October 13, 1998 at 09:31:00, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>It might be easy against an opponent with no tablebases, but when the >>opponent has perfect info, it is non-trivial. Again, I'd be happy to run >>the experiment with someone to test whether a program can beat a tablebase >>in 50 moves or not. So far, I haven't personally seen one that can. I >>have such endings with three different programs, CSTal, Rebel 8 and gnuchessX >>and when Crafty had the R side, all were were draws, when it had the Q side >>it won every time because it did use the databases... > >Why did Crafty allow KQ vs KR against any of these? Didn't it see this as a >forced mate and try to do something to avoid getting into it? > >The only time I can remember being on the weaker side of KQ vs KR was one of the >rare cases that really is drawn (queen stalemates my king, so my rook goes wild >checking their king from one square away). > >bruce I was lost and the three types of positions I remember generally came from KQP vs KRP or some such, where trading pawns was unavoidable. I have seen three types of draws. 1. as you mentioned, king at (say) h1, opponent queen at f2, my rook checking on every move since it can't be taken and the king can't get close to the queen for fear of the skewer. 2. Qg8, K on hfile, my move... rook check, then rook check/skewer. 3. Open board (one was against CSTal last week) where CST simply couldn't get below mate in 20 (or perhaps 19) without letting me sneak back to mate in 25 again. We let them play because Chris was curious if he could force the mate with me using tablebases. But I certainly don't go into KQ vs KR willingly unlesss I have the Q. :) Here's the CST game: [Event "ICC 30 30 10/01/1998"] [Site "Internet Chess Club"] [Date "1998.10.01"] [Round "-"] [White "DoctorWho"] [Black "crafty"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [WhiteElo "2269"] [BlackElo "2512"] [ECO "C31"] [NIC "KG.04"] [LongECO "KGD: Falkbeer, Morphy gambit"] 1. e4 e5 2. f4 d5 3. exd5 e4 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. d3 Bb4 6. Bd2 e3 7. Bxe3 O-O 8. Bd2 Bxc3 9. bxc3 Re8+ 10. Be2 Bg4 11. h3 Qxd5 12. Kf2 Bxe2 13. Nxe2 Qc5+ 14. Kf1 Nc6 15. Qe1 Re7 16. Qf2 Qa3 17. Ng3 Qb2 18. Rc1 Qxa2 19. Nf5 Re6 20. Qg3 Ne8 21. c4 Qb2 22. Qg4 a5 23. Kg1 a4 24. Kh2 a3 25. Qd1 a2 26. Ra1 Rf6 27. g4 Nd6 28. Nxd6 Rxd6 29. Qc1 Qf6 30. g5 Qe7 31. Re1 Re6 32. Rxe6 Qxe6 33. Be3 Nb4 34. Bd2 Qe2+ 35. Kg1 Nc6 36. Bc3 b6 37. f5 Qf3 38. Qf1 Qe3+ 39. Kh1 Nd4 40. Re1 Qf3+ 41. Qxf3 Nxf3 42. Rf1 Nxg5 43. h4 Nf3 44. Rxf3 a1=Q+ 45. Bxa1 Rxa1+ 46. Kg2 Ra2 47. Rf2 f6 48. Kf3 g6 49. fxg6 hxg6 50. Ke4 f5+ 51. Kd5 Kg7 52. Kc6 Ra7 53. Rh2 Kh6 54. Rg2 Kh5 55. Rg5+ Kxh4 56. Rxg6 Kh5 57. Rg2 Kh4 58. Kd5 Ra5+ 59. Kd4 Kh5 60. Ke3 Ra1 61. Kf4 Rf1+ 62. Ke5 c5 63. Rg8 Rf2 64. c3 Rf3 65. d4 Rxc3 66. d5 Rxc4 67. Kxf5 Kh6 68. d6 Rd4 69. Ke6 Re4+ 70. Kf6 Rf4+ 71. Ke7 Re4+ 72. Kd8 Kh7 73. Rg3 c4 74. d7 Rd4 75. Kc8 Rd1 76. Rg5 Kh6 77. Rb5 Rd6 78. Rxb6 Rxb6 79. d8=Q Rb5 80. Qh8+ Kg5 81. Qg8+ Kf5 82. Qxc4 Re5 83. Kd7 Re4 84. Qd3 Ke5 85. Kc6 Rd4 86. Qe3+ Re4 87. Qg5+ Kd4 88. Qd2+ Ke5 89. Qd6+ Kf5 90. Kd5 Re3 91. Qf8+ Kg4 92. Kd4 Re1 93. Qf2 Re6 94. Qg2+ Kf4 95. Qf1+ Kg5 96. Kd5 Re8 97. Qf3 Ra8 98. Qg3+ Kf5 99. Qd3+ Kf4 100. Qe4+ Kg5 101. Qe5+ Kg4 102. Qe2+ Kf4 103. Qf2+ Kg4 104. Qg2+ Kf4 105. Qf1+ Ke3 106. Qc1+ Kd3 107. Qc4+ Ke3 108. Qd4+ Kf3 109. Qe4+ Kg3 110. Qg6+ Kf4 111. Qb6 Ra4 112. Qf2+ Kg4 113. Qe2+ Kg3 114. Qe1+ Kh3 115. Qh1+ Kg3 116. Qg1+ Kf4 117. Qe1 Ra8 118. Qc1+ Kf5 119. Qc2+ Kf4 120. Qc7+ Ke3 121. Qb6+ Kf4 122. Qh6+ Kf5 123. Qe6+ Kf4 124. Qf6+ Ke3 125. Qh6+ Kd3 126. Qh3+ Ke2 127. Qg2+ Kd3 128. Qf3+ Kd2 129. Qf2+ Kd3 130. Qf3+ Kd2 131. Qf4+ Kd3 132. Qe3+ Others are harder to find because they are buried in 100,000 games. I found this because it was near the end and I remembered the opponent as Chris/I were both watching while it was played... Bob
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