Author: Uri Blass
Date: 14:20:00 06/18/03
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On June 18, 2003 at 16:32:33, Sune Fischer wrote: >On June 17, 2003 at 14:08:26, Uri Blass wrote: > > >>>The problem is this: If the position _starts_ off with 5 pieces, it will >>>play _perfectly_. If it starts off with more, it might not. IE it might >> >>Here is the relevant part of another post(without a part that can be deleted >>because of personal attack and with the words "from the original link" to >>prevent another conversation. >> >> I don't know why this conversation is still going on. >>The position in the diagram has 8 pieces, right? Then there's the comment >>from the original link: >> >>"It's funny that even if we sweep away three white pawns, both engines evaluate >>White's position as winning." >> >>-Tom >> >>My comments: >> >>I agree that there is no need to continue the conversation because it is clear >>based on the original link that the engines were wrong in tablebases position >>and it is also clear that they did not use the full 5 piece tablebases otherwise >>the problems of not finding draw score even in draw tablebases positions could >>be solved. >> >>I know that at least Junior does not use swindle mode and swindle mode is >>impossible because swindle mode means that at least one of the engines can >>evaluate the position correctly >> >>Uri > >Bob is right that when analyzing a 8 man position with 5 man TBs there is no >guarantee it will be solved, even if the PV shows only a 5 man position at the >end, all depends how deep the TBs are probed in the search. The point was not about the pv. Here is the quote again: "It's funny that even if we sweep away three white pawns, both engines evaluate White's position as winning" It seems clear to me that the author talks about the position after white lose 3 pawns and not about the pv. > >Problem is often that the line is not forced, for instance there is no reason >the king should eat the pawns and allow a mate score from the TBs. > >So if we give Shirov the benefit of the doubt, that he did install the full set >of TBs, then I think that is what happened. It shouldn't be too hard for others >to confirm though. 1)Shipov and not shirov if I remember correctly(I am too lazy to look at the link) 2)It is clear that in another position in the link the root position was KBP vs KP and the programs did not evaluate it correctly so it is clear that not all the 5 piece tablebases were installed. Uri
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