Author: Tom Kerrigan
Date: 02:19:08 06/27/03
Go up one level in this thread
On June 27, 2003 at 04:44:40, Aaron Gordon wrote: >On June 27, 2003 at 04:06:00, Tom Kerrigan wrote: > >>On June 27, 2003 at 02:25:54, Aaron Gordon wrote: >> >>>On June 27, 2003 at 01:58:45, Peter Stayne wrote: >>> >>>>On June 27, 2003 at 01:42:20, Aaron Gordon wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 27, 2003 at 01:27:19, Peter Stayne wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>>In my tests my Athlon XP 2.5GHz beats a P4-3.38GHz, it's close but it does. >>>>>> >>>>>I think Carmack is partial to Intel, because he hasn't in all of the Quake3 >>>>>patches done a quick fix in his code, making SSE work in Quake3. Quake3 treats >>>>>the Athlon like a K6 and tries to use the non-existant/broken 3DNow! code. Also, >>>>>he wouldn't allow AMD to make an official patch out of my DLLs. Why? One can >>>>>only wonder... >>>> >>>>The last part of your remark here certainly was a business decision. Those DLL's >>>>were made by a 3rd party. First off, id would have to negotiate ownership rights >>>>for the programmer's code. Secondly, even if he were to give them to id for >>>>free, the moment you include them in an official patch, you're bound to support >>>>it. This requires that id test them thoroughly, analyze them for issues that >>>>would need to be addressed. Also, we can't know if it was a 'quick fix' or not, >>>>perhaps it remained broken because it wasn't a quick fix. Thing is, with Q3, >>>>most cpu's of the day pulled >60fps with a good GPU, whereas there were quite a >>>>few GPU's that weren't pulling their weight, which is why I think he focused >>>>more on GPU performance. He has remained faithfully honest and reliable in the >>>>nVidia vs ATI wars. >>>> >>> >>>The source code wasn't modified in any way, only compiled with profiling with >>>the Intel C compiler. So all of the original code remained as such, and wasn't >>>changed. Even so Carmack still did not allow it. >>> >>>I'm pretty sure getting the SSE support enabled on the Athlon XP/MP is no big >>>deal, it's there for the P3 and P4 (P4 gets detected as a P3, which has SSE, and >>>that gets enabled). However ID could just change the cpu id detection (very >>>simple) to detect an Athlon, and then use the pre-existing (and working) SSE >>>code. >> >>Just because Carmack doesn't do something to help AMD doesn't mean he's partial >>to Intel. >> >>-Tom > >If you want to better sell your product why not optimize for both AMD and Intel >cpus? Also, if he isn't partial to Intel why isn't he doing the few simple >things I explained earlier to fix it? He knows its used as a 3D gaming >benchmark. > >Also, you may say, "He doesn't want to waste the time to blah blah etc etc".. >well, I did that. AMD and I got to the point to where all he had to do was say >'yes' or 'no'.. and he chose to say no. He didn't even have to support the DLLs >in any way, shape or form. Why'd he say no? Who knows (you know what I think >though), it wasn't like his code was modified.. and he wouldn't have to support >it in any way. Out of the thousands of people that have downloaded it I have not >received *1* email of crashing due to the dlls. Him denying all AMD related >tweaks and not fixing his code sure has a hard time making me think otherwise... He knows it's used as a benchmark, but from what I know of him, he could care less. Q3A is more interesting as a graphics card/memory bandwidth benchmark, he probably sees CPUs as inconsequential, esp. considering that current CPUs are putting out hundreds of FPS. Besides, he was probably busy with Doom 3 by the time you approached him about optimizing Q3A, so that's another reason why he could probably care less. So you gave him the choice of improving something that he didn't care about and didn't think mattered at the cost of something potentially going wrong (however remote the chances) and he'd have to waste time sorting out. I can understand his decision. If the guy isn't partial to ATI or NVidia, which make a much bigger difference in the work he does, what makes you think he would sell out to Intel somehow? Besides, weren't his engines one of the first to make use of 3DNow? If you search for Carmack and 3DNow, the 2nd link is him endorsing it on AMD's web site. Another thing to think about is that, IIRC, Q3A was written, tested, and released long before any current Intel hardware so it's not like he could have optimized anything for, e.g., the P4. -Tom
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