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Subject: Re: Inflationary Effects?

Author: Matthew Hull

Date: 11:56:36 07/14/03

Go up one level in this thread


On July 14, 2003 at 14:27:12, Uri Blass wrote:

>On July 14, 2003 at 13:38:30, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On July 14, 2003 at 03:27:27, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On July 14, 2003 at 00:00:53, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 13, 2003 at 15:03:38, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 13, 2003 at 12:42:19, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I (and many others) believe that the Elo system works well for players
>>>>>>that are pretty close in rating.  It seems to work less well (in the case
>>>>>>of computers) for players that are significantly separated in ratings.
>>>>>
>>>>>I agree mostly, not sure why it should be different for computers though.
>>>>
>>>>I'm not either.  But if you watch a 2000 computer play a 2600 computer, it
>>>>_seems_ to me that the 2000 computer wins more games than it should.  Or at
>>>>least draws more than it should.  I certainly can't prove this however, but
>>>>experience seems to (at least in my case) support this conclusion.
>>>
>>>What experience?
>>
>>On servers.
>>
>>At a couple of dozen ACM and WCCC and WMCCC events.
>>
>>on matches played here locally during testing.
>>
>>Etc.
>>
>>>
>>>If you use games on chess servers then it is possible that the 2000 computer
>>>simply updated the software but the result are still not written in the rating
>>>list so this is different experience than ssdf.
>>>
>>>If you are talking about static programs than based on my memory there was a
>>>version of cray blitz that beated Genius1 in every game.
>>
>>With a big hardware advantage.  But It didn't win every game even though
>>it certainly should have.  I don't remember the specifics now, but I played
>>something like 20 games and hit two or three draws.  That was suggesting
>>a difference of 400+ rating points.  The real difference was far greater.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Cray blitz had a big hardware difference but I do not think that the difference
>>>was more than 600 elo.
>>
>>At that point in time, we were talking about 500K nodes per second for
>>Cray Blitz vs genius on a 486/33, if I recall the hardware.  The difference
>>was probably way more than 600 elo, based on human vs computer games against
>>both.
>
>It is possible that Genius has some weakness that humans could take advantage of
>it.
>
>Based on the ssdf rating list we have difference of less than 500 elo between
>Crafty(A1200) and Genius1(486/33 mhz).
>
>Crafty 18.12/CB 256MB  Athlon 1200 MHz  2614
>Chess Genius 1.0  486/33 MHz            2140
>
>The difference is less than 500 ssdf elo and 500K nodes per second for cray
>blitz suggest that it was not better than Crafty on A1200 in the games that you
>played.

Is this not the same bad NPS assumption that VD makes all the time?  A CB node
is not a crafty node.

Matt


>
>I remember that latest Cray blitz could search 7M nodes per second but I
>understood also that you limited Cray blitz
>in the games against Genius1 so 500K nodes per second seems logical.
>
>Uri



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