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Subject: Re: A strange position. Does your engine see the victory?

Author: Timothy J. Frohlick

Date: 13:49:59 09/05/03

Go up one level in this thread


Shredder 7.04 on an old AMD 1400 with 512 MB RAM sees the win in 10 seconds.

New game
6k1/3qppP1/b3p3/Pp1pP1PN/1PpP4/2P5/8/1BK5 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Shredder 7.04:

1.Nf6+ exf6 2.exf6
  -+  (-7.02)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6
  -+  (-6.83)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
1.Kd2
  -+  (-5.53)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
1.Kd2
  -+  (-4.49)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
1.Kd2
  -+  (-4.49)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
1.Kd2 Bb7
  -+  (-4.37)   Depth: 2/3   00:00:00
1.g6 Qc6 2.gxf7+ Kxf7
  -+  (-4.28)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
1.g6 Qc6 2.gxf7+ Kxf7
  -+  (-4.28)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
1.g6 Qe8 2.Kd2
  -+  (-4.60)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
1.g6 Qe8 2.Kd2 fxg6
  -+  (-4.89)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
1.Kd2 Bb7 2.g6 fxg6
  -+  (-4.85)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
1.Kd2 Bb7 2.Bc2
  -+  (-4.49)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
1.Kd2 Bb7 2.Ke3
  -+  (-4.42)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
1.Kd2 Qe8 2.Ke3 f6
  -+  (-4.27)   Depth: 4/9   00:00:00
1.Kd2 Qe8 2.Nf4 Kxg7 3.Nxd5
  -+  (-4.52)   Depth: 5/12   00:00:00
1.Kd2 Qe8 2.Bc2 f6 3.Nf4 Kxg7 4.Nxe6+ Kf7
  -+  (-4.59)   Depth: 5/12   00:00:00
1.Kd2 Qe8 2.Bc2 Bc8
  -+  (-4.34)   Depth: 6/12   00:00:00  5kN
1.Kd2 Qe8 2.Ke3 f6 3.Nxf6+ exf6 4.gxf6
  -+  (-4.14)   Depth: 6/12   00:00:00  8kN
1.Kd2 Qe8 2.Ke3 Bb7 3.Bc2 f6 4.Bd3
  -+  (-4.39)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:00  13kN
1.Kd2 Qe8 2.Bc2 f5 3.Bd1 Qg6 4.Nf4 Qxg5
  -+  (-4.71)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:00  17kN
1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Bc8
  -+  (-4.70)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:00  22kN
1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Bb7 3.Bf3 Qd8 4.Kd2
  -+  (-4.41)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:00  25kN
1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Bc8 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Bf3 Qd8
  -+  (-4.21)   Depth: 8/19   00:00:00  37kN
1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Bb7 3.Kd2 Qb8 4.Ke3 Qc7 5.Kf4
  -+  (-4.17)   Depth: 9/24   00:00:01  63kN
1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Bc8 3.Kd2 f6 4.exf6 Bd7
  -+  (-4.07)   Depth: 10/25   00:00:01  114kN
1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Bb7 3.Kd2 Qb8 4.Ke3 Kh7 5.Bc2+ Kg8 6.Kf4 Qc7
  -+  (-4.00)   Depth: 11/29   00:00:02  210kN
1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Bb7 3.Kd2 Qb8 4.Ke3 Qc7 5.Bc2 f6 6.gxf6 Qc6
  -+  (-3.92)   Depth: 12/29   00:00:02  396kN
1.Bc2 Qa7 2.Kd2 f5 3.gxf6 exf6 4.exf6 Qf7 5.Bd1 Qg6 6.Be2 Qg5+ 7.Ke1 Qe3 8.Kf1
Qxc3
  -+  (-3.99)   Depth: 13/29   00:00:02  976kN
1.Bc2 Bb7 2.Kd2 Qe8 3.Bd1 f6 4.gxf6 Qg6 5.Be2 exf6 6.exf6 Qg5+ 7.Kc2 Qe3 8.Kd1
Qxc3
  -+  (-4.00)   Depth: 14/33   00:00:05  2061kN
1.Kd2 Qe8 2.Nf6+ exf6 3.gxf6 Qe7 4.fxe7 f5
  -+  (-3.99)   Depth: 14/33   00:00:07  2555kN
1.Kd2 Qc6 2.Nf6+ Kxg7 3.Nxd5
  -+  (-3.99)   Depth: 14/33   00:00:10  3937kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Qc5 5.dxc5 d4+ 6.cxd4 Be4 7.Bxe4
  -+  (-3.64)   Depth: 14/33   00:00:10  4011kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Qe7 4.fxe7 f5
  -+  (-3.29)   Depth: 14/33   00:00:10  4011kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qc5 6.bxc5 Bd7
  +-  (2.99)   Depth: 14/33   00:00:11  4058kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qb8 6.Kg5 Qe8 7.Kh6 Qf8
8.gxf8Q+ Kxf8
  +-  (3.24)   Depth: 15/33   00:00:11  4122kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qb8 6.Kg5 Bb7 7.Kh6 Qc7
  +-  (3.74)   Depth: 15/33   00:00:11  4134kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Ba8 6.Kg5 Qxd4 7.cxd4 Bb7 8.Kf4
c3
  +-  (3.77)   Depth: 15/33   00:00:11  4205kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qxd4+ 6.cxd4 Bb7 7.Ke3 Bc8
  +-  (4.02)   Depth: 16/33   00:00:13  4889kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qxd4+ 6.cxd4 Bb7 7.Kg5 c3
8.Bh7+ Kxh7 9.g8Q+
  +-  (4.05)   Depth: 16/33   00:00:13  4990kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qxd4+ 6.cxd4 Be8 7.Kg5 c3 8.Kh6
Bd7
  +-  (4.30)   Depth: 17/33   00:00:18  7071kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qe7 6.Kg5 Qxf6+ 7.exf6 Bb7
  +-  (4.80)   Depth: 17/33   00:00:18  7107kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qe7 6.Kg5 Qxb4 7.Bh7+ Kxh7
8.Kf4 Qxc3
  +-  (4.80)   Depth: 17/33   00:00:18  7229kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qe7 6.Kg5 Be8 7.fxe7 f6+ 8.exf6
Bg6 9.Kxg6
  +-  (5.05)   Depth: 18/33   00:00:24  9992kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qb8 6.Kg5 Qxe5+ 7.dxe5 d4
8.cxd4 Ba8 9.Kf4 Bb7
  +-  (5.32)   Depth: 18/33   00:00:25  10235kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qb8 6.Kg5 Qxe5+ 7.dxe5 d4
8.cxd4 c3 9.Kf4 Bb7
  +-  (5.37)   Depth: 19/33   00:00:35  14731kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qb8 6.Kg5 Qxe5+ 7.dxe5 d4
8.cxd4 Bg2 9.Kh6 Bf1
  +-  (5.62)   Depth: 20/33   00:00:52  21947kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qb8 6.Kg5 Qf8 7.Kh6 Qxg7+
8.fxg7 f5 9.exf6 Kf7
  +-  (6.12)   Depth: 20/33   00:00:53  22028kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qxa5 6.bxa5 b4 7.cxb4 Ba4 8.a6
c3 9.a7 Bc6 10.b5
  +-  (6.51)   Depth: 20/33   00:00:54  22546kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qxa5 6.bxa5 b4 7.cxb4 Ba4 8.a6
c3 9.a7 Bc6 10.Kg5
  +-  (6.76)   Depth: 21/33   00:01:22  34259kN
1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qa7 3.Kd2 Bb7 4.Ke3 Bc6 5.Kf4 Qc7 6.Kg5 Qxe5+ 7.dxe5 d4
8.cxd4 c3
  +-  (7.11)   Depth: 21/34   00:01:24  35033kN

(Frohlick, Albuquerque 05.09.2003)



On September 05, 2003 at 11:39:33, Andrey Popov wrote:

>On September 05, 2003 at 11:02:07, John Merlino wrote:
>
>>On September 05, 2003 at 10:51:03, Andrey Popov wrote:
>>
>>>Look at the following position:
>>>[D]6k1/3qppP1/b3p3/Pp1pP1PN/1PpP4/2P5/8/1BK5 w - - 0 1
>>>Does your engine see the victory?
>>
>>Chessmaster 9000, on a P4-2.4, needs a little over 2 minutes to see the win:
>>
>I see. 2 minutes and only 9 plies.
>However, Ruffian (the same strength) could not get the positive score during
>this time. What is the reason of this strange difference?
>See the Ruffian log:
>  6k1/3qppP1/b3p3/Pp1pP1PN/1PpP4/2P5/8/1BK5 w - -
>  Depth   Time  Score    Best line
>  13/28   1.24  -3.37    Bc2 Qc6 Kd2 Qe8 Bd1 Qd8 Ke3 Qc8 Kf4 Qd7 Bf3 f5 gxf6
>                         exf6
>  13-->   1.37  -3.37    Bc2 Qc6 Kd2 Qe8 Bd1 Qd8 Ke3 Qc8 Kf4 Qd7 Bf3 f5 gxf6
>                         exf6
>  14/28   2.18  -3.40    Bc2 Qc6 Kd2 Qe8 Bd1 Qd8 Bc2 Qc8 g6 Qe8 gxf7+ Qxf7
>                         Bd1 Qf5 Be2 Qg5+ Kc2
>  14-->   2.46  -3.40    Bc2 Qc6 Kd2 Qe8 Bd1 Qd8 Bc2 Qc8 g6 Qe8 gxf7+ Qxf7
>                         Bd1 Qf5 Be2 Qg5+ Kc2
>  15/29   3.71  -3.31    Bc2 Qc6 Kd2 Qe8 Bd1 Qd8 Bc2 Qc8 Bd1 Qd7 Bc2 f5 gxf6
>                         Qe8 Nf4 exf6 exf6 Qf7
>  15-->   4.00  -3.31    Bc2 Qc6 Kd2 Qe8 Bd1 Qd8 Bc2 Qc8 Bd1 Qd7 Bc2 f5 gxf6
>                         Qe8 Nf4 exf6 exf6 Qf7
>  16/35   6.52  -3.31    Bc2 Qc6 Kd2 Qe8 Bd1 Qd8 Bc2 Qc8 Bd1 Qd7 Bc2 f5 gxf6
>                         Qe8 Nf4 exf6 exf6 Qf7
>  16-->   7.06  -3.31    Bc2 Qc6 Kd2 Qe8 Bd1 Qd8 Bc2 Qc8 Bd1 Qd7 Bc2 f5 gxf6
>                         Qe8 Nf4 exf6 exf6 Qf7
>  17/36  31.74  -3.31    Bc2 Qc6 Bd1 Qe8 Kd2 Qd8 Bc2 Qc8
>  17-->  32.68  -3.31    Bc2 Qc6 Bd1 Qe8 Kd2 Qd8 Bc2 Qc8
>  18/42   1:07  -3.31    Bc2 Qc6 Bd1 Qe8 Kd2 Qd8 Ke3 Qc8 Kf4 Qd7 Ke3 Qc6 Kd2
>                         Qc8 Bc2 Qe8
>  18-->   1:12  -3.31    Bc2 Qc6 Bd1 Qe8 Kd2 Qd8 Ke3 Qc8 Kf4 Qd7 Ke3 Qc6 Kd2
>                         Qc8 Bc2 Qe8
>  19/42   1:53     --    Bc2
>  19/43   3:28  -3.88    Bc2 Bc8 Bd1 Qd8 Kd2 Bd7 Bg4 Be8 Ke2 f5 exf6 Bxh5
>                         Bxh5 exf6 gxf6 Qxf6 Be8 Kxg7 Bxb5 e5
>  19-->   3:43  -3.88    Bc2 Bc8 Bd1 Qd8 Kd2 Bd7 Bg4 Be8 Ke2 f5 exf6 Bxh5
>                         Bxh5 exf6 gxf6 Qxf6 Be8 Kxg7 Bxb5 e5
>  20/43   4:26     --    Bc2
>  20/45   8:05  -4.31    Bc2 Qd8 Bd1 Bc8 Kd2 Bd7 Bg4 Be8 Ke2 f5 exf6 Bxh5
>                         Bxh5 exf6 gxf6 Qxf6
>  20/45   9:46   x.xx    Kd2
>
>>
>>Chessmaster 9000, on a P4-2.4, needs a little over 2 minutes to see the win:
>>
>>Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
>>0:00	1/8	-5.65	44032		1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Qc8 3.Bc2 Qd8 4.g6
>>					f5 5.Nf4
>>0:00	2/9	-5.65	57399		1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Qc8 3.Bc2 Qd8 4.g6
>>					f5 5.Nf4
>>0:00	3/10	-5.55	121321		1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Qc8 3.Bc2 Qd8 4.g6
>>					f5 5.Nf4 Qc8
>>0:01	4/11	-5.60	237325		1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Qc8 3.Kd2 Qa8 4.Be2
>>					Qe8 5.Bg4 Qb8 6.g6
>>0:02	5/12	-5.52	590781		1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Qc8 3.Kd2 Qa8 4.Bg4
>>					Qc6 5.Ke3 Qc8 6.Nf4 Qa8
>>0:04	6/13	-5.56	1254718		1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Qc8 3.Kd2 Qa8 4.Bg4
>>					Qc6 5.Ke3 Qc8 6.Kd2 Qd8 7.Nf4
>>0:15	7/14	-5.45	3909511		1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Qc8 3.Kd2 Qa8 4.Bg4
>>					Kh7 5.Ke3 Bb7 6.Kf3 Bc6 7.Kf2 Kg8
>>					8.Bf3
>>0:36	8/15	-5.46	8880617		1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Qc8 3.Kd2 Qa8 4.Bg4
>>					Kh7 5.Ke3 Bb7 6.Be2 Kg8 7.Kd2 Bc6
>>					8.Bf3
>>1:58	9/16	-5.35	28593195	1.Bc2 Qe8 2.Bd1 Qc8 3.Kd2 Qa8 4.Bg4
>>					Kh7 5.Ke3 Qc6 6.Be2 Kg8 7.Bg4 Qc8
>>					8.Kd2 Qa8
>>2:17	9/16	4.09	35256466	1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qe8 3.Kd2 Qd8
>>					4.Ke3 Qxa5 5.bxa5 b4 6.cxb4 Bb5
>>					7.Kd2 Ba6 8.Bc2 Bb5 9.Kc3 Ba6
>>2:21	10/17	4.89	36413121	1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qe8 3.Kd2 Qd8
>>					4.Ke3 Qxf6 5.exf6 Bc8 6.Kf4 Bb7
>>					7.Kg5 e5 8.dxe5 d4 9.cxd4 c3 10.Bc2
>>2:51	11/18	5.27	48709448	1.Nf6+ exf6 2.gxf6 Qe8 3.Kd2 Qb8
>>					4.Ke3 Qxe5+ 5.dxe5 Bb7 6.Kd4 Bc6
>>					7.Kc5 Ba8 8.Kxb5 Bb7 9.Kb6 Ba8
>>					10.b5 d4 11.Ka7
>>
>>jm



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