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Subject: Re: Interesting article at Chess Base website

Author: Anthony Cozzie

Date: 09:23:19 10/08/03

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On October 08, 2003 at 11:49:53, James T. Walker wrote:

>On October 08, 2003 at 06:31:38, George Tsavdaris wrote:
>
>>On October 08, 2003 at 05:40:40, Torstein Hall wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=1229
>>>
>>>Is realy programs getting stronger compared to humnan GM's?
>>>
>>>(In my view they are)
>>>
>>>Torstein
>>
>>"Although computers obviously must be improving in recent years, the strongest
>>humans seem to also be improving at about the same rate."
>>
>>a) The ELO performance in the graph, of the strongest human player(Kasparov),
>>in the last 6 years is almost a straight line that stays the same.
>>b) The SSDF maximum ELO performance in the graph is inceasing in the last 6
>>years, although the way SSDF handles it's rating list makes  this less important
>>for belying his above statement.
>>c)Every year, we have an increase at the plies a chess-computer searches at a
>>given time(due to improved search techniques and hardware speed) and also
>>programmers add more knowledge at chess-computers. Humans can't improve so
>>much every year to compensate this one(or two) plies and in fact they improve
>>only 5 % - 10 % in relation with comps.
>>
>> Due to the above 3 reasons and especially the c) , his statement seems to
>>me wrong.
>> It's ridiculous to say that computers are not getting stronger compared to
>>GM's (Mr Jeff Sonas didn't(yet?) said that). And it's ridiculous to say
>>that: "I don't believe that computers will inevitably surpass the top humans".
>>This thing is inevitable.
>> Of course this has nothing to do with todays strength of computers, as indeed
>>may be lower, than that of top GM's.
>
>I think that the basic "idea" of his article is correct in that computers have
>not made much progress vs top humans lately.  But he seems to ignore the real
>reason.  The top GM's are taking computers more seriously now.  They are
>learning how to play vs computers which they didn't take seriously several years
>ago.  Computers are getting stronger but GM'a are adjusting.  The problem is
>they cannot adjust forever.  The computers will surpass them all (humans)very
>soon.
>I think if humans were to play computers now without knowing the opponent was a
>computer then they are already behind the curve.  That is if they played them
>straight up like a normal GM game.  Their anti-computer  tactics are holding on
>for now.  As programmers clean up the holes in anti-computer tactics then humans
>will fall by the wayside.
>Jim

Agree 100%.

anthony



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