Author: Eugene Nalimov
Date: 18:03:54 10/24/03
Go up one level in this thread
On October 24, 2003 at 19:28:35, Christophe Theron wrote: >On October 24, 2003 at 16:26:58, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>hello Christophe, >> >>as a big linux expert, and me a very poor amateur there, >>i have next problem. > > > >Who's the "big Linux expert"??? > >Me???? > >You're talking to the wrong person then. > >I'm definitely *NOT* a Linux geek. > >I'm using it since last year and it works fine, and I did not have to do geeky >things to make it work. > > > > >>my monitor broke down. 19'' IIYAMA (saw some postings from Bob here and while >>laughing for them my head danged against the monitor). under linux i had running >>1280x1024x100Hz vertical. >> >>my temporary replacement monitor cannot handle this frequency and tomorrow (so >>in 10 hours) i want to play The King under linux and after that against Tiger. >> >>In windows it is very easy. i bootted and pressed while booting f8. then i >>used 'boot VGA mode' and then i set there a new resolution, rebooted and it >>booted fine. >> >>In linux i have no clue what to do. it automatically starts X here of course. > > > >Boot Linux and let it reach the login screen (if nothing is displayed you will >know it is there because you will see the hard disk stop working). > >Type Ctrl-Alt-F1. That sends you to a console. Log in. > >Type x86config and configure the settings for your new monitor. > >I don't know if it will work, but that's what I would try first. > >If your point is that it is complicated in Linux, what about that mysterious F8 >key you have to press and hold while booting Windows? Windows says something like "Press F8 for safe boot" during boot :-) Thanks, Eugene >System administration requires some knowledge, in any case. > > > > Christophe > > > > > > > >>On October 24, 2003 at 13:36:06, Christophe Theron wrote: >> >>>On October 24, 2003 at 10:27:16, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >>> >>>>On October 24, 2003 at 03:26:00, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 23, 2003 at 19:42:59, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On October 23, 2003 at 05:55:12, Daniel Clausen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>i've tested so many toolkits and environments and really >>>>>>very *little* even *works* both in linux and windows. >>>>>> >>>>>>when something works great for linux and also works for windows, then usually >>>>>>that allows, to say very kindly, at most year 80s software to be produced for >>>>>>windows. >>>>>> >>>>>>This where we live 2003. You can't sell something years 80 now. Not even to a >>>>>>big bank organisation who works currently years 70... >>>>>> >>>>>>then possible sales under linux. >>>>>> >>>>>>Yes linux is great, but selling something under it???? >>>>>> >>>>>>It's simply NAIVE to guess that porting an application to *nix will sell some. >>>>>>All what happens is that your helpdesk will get flooded for 99% by questions >>>>>>about linux and how to install it and why it doesn't work and what they have to >>>>>>type. >>>>>> >>>>>>Even experienced linux users when i ship them a default diep version, they >>>>>>simply do *not* get diep to work without extensive instructions. >>>>>> >>>>>>The same users *do* get diep to work under windows. >>>>>> >>>>>>Why? >>>>>> >>>>>>Because everything runs there simply. >>>>>> >>>>>>coming weekend i plan to play diep under linux at the dutch open championship, >>>>>>but saying that linux is a commercial succes. No way. It's for nerds and very >>>>>>experienced users only at the moment. >>>>>> >>>>>>That's very sad. >>>>>> >>>>>>All my hope is pointed towards the Japanese/chinese/korean government who are >>>>>>creating a new OS that should go compete against microsoft. >>>>>> >>>>>>Linux has come a long end, but to get commercially interesting to use for mass >>>>>>market products, it has a LONG way to go. >>>>>> >>>>>>At the moment it's only cool for companies who have system administrators and >>>>>>who want to save out for simple database stuff and online stuff a lot of money >>>>>>by using a linux platform + MySQL, to give a popular example. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>What I see is that I have a very capable operating system packed with loads of >>>>>software that comes free, works, and replaces almost everything I was using >>>>>under Windows. >>>>> >>>>>It is not much harder to administrate Linux than to administrate Windows on the >>>>>desktop. Many Windows users are anyway absolutely unable to administrate their >>>>>desktop computer. >>>>> >>>>>Those who are would not find much more difficult to administrate a Linux >>>>>desktop. >>>>> >>>>>In the end the Linux user's experience is very similar to the Windows user's >>>>>experience. I have been using Linux for a year now and when I work I completely >>>>>forget that I'm using Linux and not Windows. >>>>> >>>>>I just work on my stuff, the system is stable and does not crash, so I don't >>>>>even notice that I'm using that scaring geeky stuff that Linux is supposed to >>>>>be. >>>>> >>>>>I think that's an important message to pass: Linux looks and feels like Windows. >>>>>People that just use their PC for email, Internet surfing, word processing, >>>>>spreadsheet and so on would not notice much difference. Those who do more and >>>>>want to install programs and tune their system would have to learn a few tricks, >>>>>but who could do that under Windows without first learning how to do it anyway? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Christophe >>>> >>>>IMO, there are several big differences between Windows and Linux: >>>> >>>>1. Most people learn to use a computer on Windows; the Windows GUI is what they >>>>are used to. >>> >>> >>> >>>The Linux GUI I have in front of me at this time looks exactly like Windows. >>> >>>Somebody used to the Windows GUI will simply feel at home in front of a Linux >>>PC. >>> >>>I could even make it look EXACTLY like Windows. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>2. Linux apps don't present a uniform look/feel. You can run any of 30 window >>>>managers and 15 GUI toolkits. Cdbakeoven looks vastly different than gaim which >>>>looks different than openoffice etc. >>> >>> >>> >>>That's true, but that's getting better. >>> >>>And it is not worse to the point that using those apps is a pain. >>> >>>It is not. The difference between apps will be for example that buttons will >>>look slightly different. >>> >>>It will not stop you from using the application. >>> >>>And anyway, many Windows programs have a different look and feel anyway. For >>>example I have installed a CD-burner management program on my mother's Windows >>>box that followed none of the Windows GUI guidelines. There was no window frame, >>>buttons were pictures, combo boxes looked weird... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>3. Microsoft spends billions in usability testing. Linux geeks are much more >>>>likely to do "cool stuff" than write documentation or worry about >>>>userfriendliness. The Linux program will contain awesome configurability and >>>>run in 241kb of ram, while using 2.3% of your CPU - if you spend 5 hours reading >>>>newsgroups. The MS program will just work. >>> >>> >>> >>>My experience is that Linux program also "just work". >>> >>>They might be a little bit more difficult to install sometimes, that's right. >>>But not that hard. For example, in order to install the latest Mozilla I had to >>>install 5 packages instead of one. But installing each package was easy. And the >>>documentation told me to install them all, one after the other. >>> >>>So I agree that it is not really state-of-the-art in term of user friendly, but >>>you do not have to be a geek either. >>> >>>I would not describe myself as a Linux geek. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Linux has made a *lot* of strides in usability. When I first installed linux 4 >>>>years ago, I had to hand-edit my XF86Config file. There was no Mplayer or XMMS >>>>or whatnot. In a year or two, you might be right. But I think you are vastly >>>>overestimating the computer expertise most people possess. >>>> >>>>anthony >>> >>> >>> >>>I know most people do not know how to administrate their system. >>> >>>So they have to ask expert friends. >>> >>>Most people do not know how to install Windows programs and will have it done by >>>somebody else. >>> >>>If I had installed Linux on my mother's PC, she could use it every day without >>>even noticing it's Linux. >>> >>>I have not installed Linux on her PC because we are several thousands miles >>>apart. So if there is a problem on her machine I could not fix it myself, and as >>>there are at this time more people able to fix Windows than people able to fix >>>Linux, I have decided that it was safer for her to continue with Windows. >>> >>>So the problem is not that Linux is more difficult to use. It is not. >>> >>>It is not that it is harder to administrate. It is indeed a little bit harder to >>>administrate but not really a problem for somebody who can administrate a >>>Windows system. >>> >>>The problem is lack of availability of trained technicians. >>> >>>It is a problem, but it will get better with time. And I would not say it is a >>>problem related to the quality of the product. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>P.S. When is CT for linux coming out? >>> >>> >>> >>>Some day... I cannot give you a release date because it is not my highest >>>priority, so other projects are advancing faster. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Christophe
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