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Subject: Re: Intel four-way 2.8 Ghz system is just Amazing ! - Not hardly

Author: Aaron Gordon

Date: 20:55:53 11/12/03

Go up one level in this thread


On November 12, 2003 at 13:30:11, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On November 11, 2003 at 22:41:08, Aaron Gordon wrote:
>
>>On November 11, 2003 at 21:05:31, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>>
>>>On November 11, 2003 at 19:55:22, Aaron Gordon wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 11, 2003 at 17:38:38, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 11, 2003 at 08:50:53, Aaron Gordon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>It would be better had they used a quad or 8-way Opteron running 2GHz or more.
>>>>>>From some testing I've done in the past you can figure a single Opteron 2GHz ==
>>>>>>a P4-3.6GHz in Fritz 8 (32bit mode). So, a Quad Opteron 2.0 == Quad P4-3.6.
>>>>>>Almost 30% faster, plus the memory bandwidth available would probably push it a
>>>>>>bit over that with large hash table sizes. 8-way Opteron 2.0 would of course be
>>>>>>like 8 p4-3.6's (however with some 40gb/s+ memory bandwidth available depending
>>>>>>on bus speed).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why not use the best hardware? Seems like if you'd want to promote your new
>>>>>>'awesome' chess program you'd want to give it the best chance of winning.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am not so sure that for SMP program that is not NUMA-aware quad Opteron will
>>>>>be faster than quad Xeon, even if single-CPU Opteron is faster than single-CPU
>>>>>Xeon.
>>>>>
>>>>>At least it was so for Crafty. Before we modified it to be NUMA-aware, 1.8GHz
>>>>>Opteron was faster than 1.5GHz Itanium, but quad 1.4GHz Itanium was faster than
>>>>>quad 1.5GHz Opteron. Actually, Itanium was slightly faster even on 2 CPUs.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Eugene
>>>>
>>>>Fritz doesn't run on the Itanium platform that I'm aware of.. not without
>>>>emulation. All of the Itanium emulation I've seen runs like a 486.. so.. back to
>>>>the 4 to 8-way Opteron arguement I go. :)
>>>
>>>I gave numbers for Crafty. Not for Fritz, Chess Tiger, Hiarcs, etc. I definitely
>>>told so in my post.
>>>
>>>Ok, trying to re-phrase it:
>>>
>>>You told: "For program 'F' single-CPU system 'O' is 30% faster than system 'P',
>>>so quad system 'O' is definitely faster than quad system 'P'".
>>>
>>>I answered: "Not necessary. For (another) program 'C' (prior to my NUMA
>>>modifications) single-CPU system 'O' is faster than system 'I', bud quad system
>>>'O' is noticeable slower than quad system 'I'".
>>>
>>>Yes, I did not have the exact numbers for Fritz. But the numbers I have suggest
>>>that quad system 'P' can in fact be faster than system 'O'. It's hard to say
>>>without measuring...
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Eugene
>>
>>I was just stating at this point it would be easier, and the best bet, to use a
>>quad Opteron now rather than spend countless hours redoing the entire engine
>>before an important match. You can get a good speed boost without optimizing.
>>Just install it on the quad and let it rip. Even if they were going to recode
>>the engine I'd bet the Opteron would require much less work than completely
>>porting over to the Itanium.
>>
>>About your Itanium performance comment. I have yet to see anything of the sort.
>>Mostly I hear of 'internal' benchmarks from Intel... then when the 'regular'
>>people try those systems the benchmarks show a different story. I believe there
>>was an article about this some time ago.. if I find it again I'll definitely
>>post the link here.
>>
>>Also, crafty has some SMP problems with some systems. How are you certain that
>>the particular problem in question did not come up? The Opteron has a memory
>>channel per cpu resulting in an excellent speedups. On the dual Athlon system I
>>saw speedups from 1.2x to 1.6x in crafty. Some people get 1.9x speedups in
>>crafty.. my dual Celeron 400@552 gets 1.9 or so. It could have been a Crafty
>>problem, not an Opteron problem.
>>
>
>The point being that this "problem" has been found and fixed.  It was a
>result of how AMD handles cache coherency vs Intel.  And about what Intel
>changed in the PIV cache coherency as well.  The current version of
>Crafty is back to scaling reasonably on my PIV xeon.  Before it was not
>doing well if you recall.  We also had some ugly results from the Opteron
>due to the NUMA problem.  Much of that has been fixed and Crafty seems to
>scale just fine there also.  I'd hope that it now does pretty well on all
>boxes, but it will take time to find out...

Ah, thats good that it has been fixed. Any ideas when that particular version
will be available for download?

>>All of the other chess programs (such as fritz, deep junior, etc) had speedups
>>of 1.85x or more on the dual Athlon however. I'd try some more reliable testing
>>on the Itanium vs Opteron situation if I were you.



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