Author: Drexel,Michael
Date: 00:05:42 11/19/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 18, 2003 at 20:07:45, Russell Reagan wrote: >On November 18, 2003 at 11:43:14, Drexel,Michael wrote: > >>Forget your theoretical viewpoint. >>The GMs don't talk about the future, they talk about the present situation. > >My point, supported by real examples, is that even the best human players, even >when they all agree, are not always as smart as they think they are. > >I already gave the one example where not a single GM saw the forced mate that >the computer saw. Bob mentioned how Deep Thought played ugly (I assume according Of course computers find some mates quickly that a human could not find. I don't think anybody denied that. They are clearly superior in tactics. >to strong human players) but handled all comers. How about Kasparov claiming >that Deep Blue could "never play a move like that"? Well, it can, and it did. > >There was a time when humans played pretty poor chess, and if you didn't play >the same style of chess it was frowned upon, even if it was a superior style. >Think about the times of players like Morphy and Steinitz and other people who >changed how the game was played. If you weren't attacking or counter-attacking, >you weren't a "real man", so to speak. Computers are just another "guy who is >changing how the game is played" IMO. > >GMs who used strategies that have worked for decades against other humans think >that the computer who doesn't play the same style of chess plays inferior moves. >I'm suggesting that maybe that isn't the case. The human GMs 'evaluation' is clearly superior to the evaluation of any computer program. [D] rnb2rk1/1p3ppp/1Pp2n1q/2Pp4/1B1Pp2b/PNN1P2P/1R1Q1PP1/4KB1R w K - 0 23 rnb2rk1/1p3ppp/1Pp2n1q/2Pp4/1B1Pp2b/PNN1P2P/1R1Q1PP1/4KB1R w K - 0 1 Analysis by Fritz 8: 23.Ne2 Ng4 24.hxg4 Bxf2+ 25.Kxf2 Qxh1 26.g5 f5 27.Nf4 ² (0.40) Depth: 7/19 00:00:00 26kN 23.Ne2 Be6 24.g3 Bg5 25.h4 Ng4 26.Bh3 Bf6 27.Nf4 ² (0.31) Depth: 8/23 00:00:00 66kN 23.Ne2 Be6 24.g3 Bg5 25.h4 Ng4 26.Bh3 Bf6 27.Nf4 ² (0.31) Depth: 9/26 00:00:00 129kN 23.Ne2 Bg5 24.Na5 Nbd7 25.Bc3 Qg6 26.Qc2 Bh4 27.Nf4 Qg5 = (0.25) Depth: 10/26 00:00:00 479kN 23.Ne2 Bg5 24.Ra2 Nbd7 25.Qc2 Bh4 26.g3 Bg5 27.h4 Ne8 28.Bh3 Be7 ² (0.28) Depth: 11/29 00:00:04 2344kN 23.Ne2 Bg5 24.Ra2 Nbd7 25.Ng3 Qg6 26.Bc3 Bh4 27.Ne2 = (0.25) Depth: 12/30 00:00:07 4393kN 23.Ne2 Bg5 24.Ra2 Nbd7 25.Ng3 Qg6 26.Bc3 Ra4 27.Ne2 Qf5 28.Qc2 Bh4 29.Nf4 ² (0.28) Depth: 13/32 00:00:17 10756kN 23.Ne2 Bg5 24.Ra2 Ng4 25.Bc3 Nd7 26.Qc2 Qh4 27.g3 Qh5 = (0.25) Depth: 14/34 00:00:38 25000kN 23.Ne2 Bg5 24.Ra2 Ng4 25.a4 Re8 26.a5 Qh4 27.g3 Qh5 28.Nf4 Qh6 ² (0.31) Depth: 15/42 00:02:14 94409kN Now the same position without castling right for white: New game rnb2rk1/1p3ppp/1Pp2n1q/2Pp4/1B1Pp2b/PNN1P2P/1R1Q1PP1/4KB1R w - - 0 1 Analysis by Fritz 8: 23.g3 Bg5 24.h4 Ng4 25.Be2 Bf6 26.Qc2 ³ (-0.50) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 17kN 23.g3 Bg5 24.h4 Ng4 25.Be2 Bf6 26.Qc2 Be6 ³ (-0.57) Depth: 8/18 00:00:00 34kN 23.Ne2! ³ (-0.53) Depth: 8/18 00:00:00 47kN 23.Ne2 Nfd7 24.Nc3 Qg6 ³ (-0.50) Depth: 8/18 00:00:00 64kN 23.Ne2 Nfd7 24.Rg1 Qf6 25.Nf4 Bg5 26.Nh5 Qg6 27.Be2 ³ (-0.41) Depth: 9/29 00:00:00 194kN 23.Ne2 Nfd7 24.Rg1 Qf6 25.Nf4 Bg5 26.Nh5 Qg6 27.Be2 f5 ³ (-0.47) Depth: 10/22 00:00:00 332kN 23.Be2! ³ (-0.44) Depth: 10/24 00:00:01 532kN 23.Be2 Qg6 24.g3 Bg5 25.Kf1 Nbd7 26.Kg2 Qf5 27.f4 exf3+ 28.Bxf3 ³ (-0.28) Depth: 11/30 00:00:03 1697kN 23.Be2 Qg6 24.g3 Bg5 25.Kf1 Nbd7 26.Kg2 Qf5 27.Rg1 Bh6 28.f4 exf3+ 29.Bxf3 ³ (-0.32) Depth: 12/28 00:00:05 2955kN 23.Be2 Qg6 24.g3 Bg5 25.Kf1 Na6 26.Kg2 Re8 27.Ba5 Be6 28.Bf1 = (-0.25) Depth: 13/35 00:00:13 8297kN 23.Be2 Qg6 24.g3 Bg5 25.Kf1 Na6 26.Kg2 Be6 27.Na5 Rfb8 28.Bf1 Qf5 29.Qe2 ³ (-0.28) Depth: 14/39 00:00:33 21571kN 23.Be2 Qg6 24.g3 Bg5 25.Kf1 Na6 26.Na5 Qf5 27.Kg2 Nb8 28.Nb3 ³ (-0.28) Depth: 15/37 00:01:05 44744kN A human GM, knowing that he can not castle short anyway because he is going to be crushed on the Kingside, laughs about this evaluation. Michael
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