Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 17:09:45 11/22/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 22, 2003 at 01:18:24, Terry McCracken wrote: >On November 21, 2003 at 18:46:21, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On November 21, 2003 at 17:52:16, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On November 21, 2003 at 10:35:20, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On November 21, 2003 at 10:25:25, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 21, 2003 at 09:39:35, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 21, 2003 at 08:43:28, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On November 21, 2003 at 05:32:12, Amir Ban wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On November 20, 2003 at 23:57:50, Russell Reagan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On November 20, 2003 at 19:21:56, Amir Ban wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I guess if Crafty were given knight odds it would also have a fair chance at >>>>>>>>>>winning, but what exactly does that prove ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Come on Amir... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Do you really believe that winning the WCCC with superior hardware is on par >>>>>>>>>with winning the WCCC when given knight odds? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I thought the WCCC was about finding out what was the best chess playing >>>>>>>>>computer, hardware and software combination. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Bob didn't say "I can get better hardware than you guys". He said "If I come >>>>>>>>with big hardware and you don't, I can beat you". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>This is the same as needing a handicap to compete. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Is it the World Computer Chess Championship or not? It's not the World Software >>>>>>>Chess Championship. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>If it runs on a computer, then there is no issue of handicaps. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Your attempt at obfuscation is exposed. :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Matt >>>>>> >>>>>>No >>>>>> >>>>>>Bob did not suggest that everyone use the best hardware but that Crafty will use >>>>>>the best hardware that it can use when Junior is using only one cpu inspite of >>>>>>the fact that it is able to use better hardware with more than one processor. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I didn't suggest a _thing_ about what hardware Junior should use. Why, exactly, >>>>>do you think Amir is doing a parallel search? Do you suppose it has _anything_ >>>>>to do with obtaining a hardware advantage? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>What Bob suggested is giving Crafty an unfair advantage and not trying to find >>>>>>the best combination of software and hardware. >>>>> >>>>>I didn't suggest any such thing. I answered the question "what US program >>>>>would be competitive in this year's WCCC event." Crafty on good hardware >>>>>is more than "just competitive" and that's _all_ I said. You have _never_ >>>>>heard me complain about what hardware others have used in the past. Since >>>>>my Cray days I have never shown up at a chess tournament with "the best >>>>>hardware". Not even at the WMCCC events I have played in. And I didn't >>>>>complain one bit that my hardware was slower. That's part of the events, >>>>>IMHO. That's why this is called "computer chess". Otherwise we could >>>>>all take our algorithms, sit down with pencil and paper and simulate games >>>>>as was done in the early 1950's, and see which _algorithm_ is best. >>>> >>>>You did not mention the word Junior but you clearly suggest to have the top >>>>commercial programs on a single CPU box >>>> >>>>Here are your words: >>>> >>>>"If you take the top commercial programs running on a single CPU box, and >>>>Crafty running on a big Opteron box, I'd claim Crafty has at _least_ as good >>>>a chance of winning as any one-cpu program, and probably better chances." >>>> >>>> >>>>The top commercial programs do not play on a single CPU box and this is the >>>>point. >>> >>>_wrong_. >>> >>>Hiarcs is a top commercial program. It only uses one cpu. >>> >>>Rebel is a top commercial program. It only uses one cpu. >>> >>>Tiger is a top commercial program. It only uses one cpu. >>> >>>ChessMaster is a top commercial program. It only uses one CPU. >>> >>>Mchess is a top commercial program. It only uses one CPU. >>> >>>Need I go farther? >> >>None of them compete in this WCCC >>I also think that at least part of them are not considered as top commercial >>programs >> >>Fritz and Junior and Shredder are simply better even with one processor. >> >>> >>>The original question was, simply put "What US program would be competitive." >>>The answer was "Crafty on big hardware." >> >>It is depdent on the definition of competitive but I think that even in that >>case Junior or Shredder with their hardware have better chances to win. >> >>Uri > >They wouldn't have a chance, if Bob decided to use a supercomputer, like a top >of the line Cray. > >How could they? Countless CPUs against a programme that can't use more than 8... >no contest. > >I might be mistaken, but I doubt it. > >Terry I _never_ say "don't have a chance". If there is any one universal truth in computer chess, that truth is "everybody has a chance" even though it might be small. See Fritz vs Deep Thought in 1995 for an example. My point is that I would _definitely_ be competitive, whether I was favored or not...
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