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Subject: Re: Crafty-List question

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:14:38 11/27/03

Go up one level in this thread


On November 27, 2003 at 20:00:56, Ulrich Tuerke wrote:

>On November 27, 2003 at 19:56:18, Chessfun wrote:
>
>>On November 27, 2003 at 19:45:54, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On November 27, 2003 at 18:15:34, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Here is the List-Brutus game from 7th round.
>>>>
>>>>Can anyone get any crafty version with any setting to play List's 13. Be2 or 19.
>>>>Qd4 ?
>>>>
>>>
>>>I'm not goint to get involved in this, since the ICGA has not asked me for
>>>any advice, analysis, or anything else.
>>>
>>>However, whether a program plays move X and Y has _nothing_ to do with
>>>whether that program is a clone or not.  I can make a couple of very simple
>>>changes to Crafty and make it play _significantly_ different.
>>>
>>>This is the _wrong_ way to investigate this.  The simplest way to prove or
>>>disprove this claim is for someone to obtain a copy of the source of List,
>>>then verify that it plays the moves actually played in the game (to verify
>>>that the source provided most likely is the source that played the actual
>>>games) then that source can be looked at carefully.  If it is a copy of
>>>Crafty, this should be pretty easy to verify.  I have done this in the
>>>past, myself, even without the source.  IE voyager and le petite come to
>>>mind.
>>>
>>>I think that just saying "list plays the same moves as Crafty" or vice-versa
>>>really doesn't prove that one is a clone of (or derived from) the other.  It
>>>is something that might raise the level of "interest", but it is not the
>>>"smoking gun" that is needed to really make such a strong accusation.
>>
>>I agree with all that.
>>
>>As List 5.04 was available by Chessbase didn't they see the source code in order
>>to create a Chessbase version?.
>
>I don't think so. ChessBase doesn't know the source code of their engines (with
>the exception of Fritz and Crafty). Usually, CB and the authors agree to an
>interface used for communication between the engine and the GUI.
>
>Uli
>

I can't speak with absolute certainty, but I have personally _never_ seen
any ChessBase API specifications.  I don't personally know anyone that ever
has.  They have always protected that, I have always assumed that was done to
make it hard for someone to incorporate Fritz into some other "package" since
the API is invisible.


>
>>
>>Sarah.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I assume the ICGA has something more to go on, that we are not aware of.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Amir
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>[Event "WCCC 11th"]
>>>>[Site "Graz"]
>>>>[Date "2003.11.26"]
>>>>[Round "7"]
>>>>[White "List"]
>>>>[Black "Brutus"]
>>>>[Result "1/2-1/2"]
>>>>[ECO "A00"]
>>>>[PlyCount "134"]
>>>>[EventDate "2003.??.??"]
>>>>
>>>>1. Nc3 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nxe4 Nd7 4. d4 Ngf6 5. Ng3 h5 6. Bd3 c5 7. Nf3 h4 8.
>>>>Ne2 h3 9. gxh3 a6 10. Ng5 cxd4 11. Nxd4 Nc5 12. Bc4 e6 13. Be2 Nfe4 14. Nxe4
>>>>Nxe4 15. Qd3 f5 16. Nb3 Qf6 17. c3 Bd7 18. Be3 Bb5 19. Qd4 Bxe2 20. Qxf6 Nxf6
>>>>21. Kxe2 Rxh3 22. Nd4 Kf7 23. Nf3 Kg8 24. Ng5 Rh6 25. Nf3 Rh5 26. Bd4 Nd5 27.
>>>>Be5 a5 28. Rhg1 Rh7 29. Rad1 Rc8 30. Rd4 Nb6 31. Bd6 Bxd6 32. Rxd6 Na4 33. Rd2
>>>>b5 34. h4 Nb6 35. Kf1 b4 36. cxb4 axb4 37. Rd4 b3 38. axb3 Rh6 39. Kg2 Kf7 40.
>>>>Ra1 Nd5 41. Rc4 Rb8 42. Ne5+ Kg8 43. Ra7 Rxb3 44. Nf7 Rg6+ 45. Ng5 Rb8 46. Kf1
>>>>Rf6 47. Rd4 Rg6 48. b3 Rh6 49. Kg2 Rg6 50. f3 Nf6 51. Re7 Nd5 52. Rxe6 Rxe6 53.
>>>>Nxe6 Rb5 54. Kf2 Kf7 55. Nf4 Nxf4 56. Rxf4 Rxb3 57. Rxf5+ Kg6 58. Rg5+ Kf6 59.
>>>>Rc5 Kg6 60. Rc6+ Kh5 61. Kg3 Rb1 62. Rc5+ Kg6 63. Re5 Kf6 64. Ra5 Kg6 65. Kg2
>>>>Rb2+ 66. Kh3 Rb1 67. Rg5+ Kf6 1/2-1/2



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