Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 18:14:38 11/27/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 27, 2003 at 20:00:56, Ulrich Tuerke wrote: >On November 27, 2003 at 19:56:18, Chessfun wrote: > >>On November 27, 2003 at 19:45:54, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On November 27, 2003 at 18:15:34, Amir Ban wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>Here is the List-Brutus game from 7th round. >>>> >>>>Can anyone get any crafty version with any setting to play List's 13. Be2 or 19. >>>>Qd4 ? >>>> >>> >>>I'm not goint to get involved in this, since the ICGA has not asked me for >>>any advice, analysis, or anything else. >>> >>>However, whether a program plays move X and Y has _nothing_ to do with >>>whether that program is a clone or not. I can make a couple of very simple >>>changes to Crafty and make it play _significantly_ different. >>> >>>This is the _wrong_ way to investigate this. The simplest way to prove or >>>disprove this claim is for someone to obtain a copy of the source of List, >>>then verify that it plays the moves actually played in the game (to verify >>>that the source provided most likely is the source that played the actual >>>games) then that source can be looked at carefully. If it is a copy of >>>Crafty, this should be pretty easy to verify. I have done this in the >>>past, myself, even without the source. IE voyager and le petite come to >>>mind. >>> >>>I think that just saying "list plays the same moves as Crafty" or vice-versa >>>really doesn't prove that one is a clone of (or derived from) the other. It >>>is something that might raise the level of "interest", but it is not the >>>"smoking gun" that is needed to really make such a strong accusation. >> >>I agree with all that. >> >>As List 5.04 was available by Chessbase didn't they see the source code in order >>to create a Chessbase version?. > >I don't think so. ChessBase doesn't know the source code of their engines (with >the exception of Fritz and Crafty). Usually, CB and the authors agree to an >interface used for communication between the engine and the GUI. > >Uli > I can't speak with absolute certainty, but I have personally _never_ seen any ChessBase API specifications. I don't personally know anyone that ever has. They have always protected that, I have always assumed that was done to make it hard for someone to incorporate Fritz into some other "package" since the API is invisible. > >> >>Sarah. >> >> >> >> >>>I assume the ICGA has something more to go on, that we are not aware of. >>> >>> >>> >>>>Amir >>>> >>>> >>>>[Event "WCCC 11th"] >>>>[Site "Graz"] >>>>[Date "2003.11.26"] >>>>[Round "7"] >>>>[White "List"] >>>>[Black "Brutus"] >>>>[Result "1/2-1/2"] >>>>[ECO "A00"] >>>>[PlyCount "134"] >>>>[EventDate "2003.??.??"] >>>> >>>>1. Nc3 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nxe4 Nd7 4. d4 Ngf6 5. Ng3 h5 6. Bd3 c5 7. Nf3 h4 8. >>>>Ne2 h3 9. gxh3 a6 10. Ng5 cxd4 11. Nxd4 Nc5 12. Bc4 e6 13. Be2 Nfe4 14. Nxe4 >>>>Nxe4 15. Qd3 f5 16. Nb3 Qf6 17. c3 Bd7 18. Be3 Bb5 19. Qd4 Bxe2 20. Qxf6 Nxf6 >>>>21. Kxe2 Rxh3 22. Nd4 Kf7 23. Nf3 Kg8 24. Ng5 Rh6 25. Nf3 Rh5 26. Bd4 Nd5 27. >>>>Be5 a5 28. Rhg1 Rh7 29. Rad1 Rc8 30. Rd4 Nb6 31. Bd6 Bxd6 32. Rxd6 Na4 33. Rd2 >>>>b5 34. h4 Nb6 35. Kf1 b4 36. cxb4 axb4 37. Rd4 b3 38. axb3 Rh6 39. Kg2 Kf7 40. >>>>Ra1 Nd5 41. Rc4 Rb8 42. Ne5+ Kg8 43. Ra7 Rxb3 44. Nf7 Rg6+ 45. Ng5 Rb8 46. Kf1 >>>>Rf6 47. Rd4 Rg6 48. b3 Rh6 49. Kg2 Rg6 50. f3 Nf6 51. Re7 Nd5 52. Rxe6 Rxe6 53. >>>>Nxe6 Rb5 54. Kf2 Kf7 55. Nf4 Nxf4 56. Rxf4 Rxb3 57. Rxf5+ Kg6 58. Rg5+ Kf6 59. >>>>Rc5 Kg6 60. Rc6+ Kh5 61. Kg3 Rb1 62. Rc5+ Kg6 63. Re5 Kf6 64. Ra5 Kg6 65. Kg2 >>>>Rb2+ 66. Kh3 Rb1 67. Rg5+ Kf6 1/2-1/2
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