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Subject: Re: Shredder wins in Graz after controversy

Author: Sandro Necchi

Date: 13:45:37 12/09/03

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On December 09, 2003 at 15:14:00, Frank Phillips wrote:

>On December 09, 2003 at 14:45:25, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>
>>On December 09, 2003 at 10:16:51, Frank Phillips wrote:
>>
>>>This is too subtle for me.  It is an event between machines with the operator
>>>acting as a go between (a mistake in my view).  The machine said draw, >therefore the operator must claim the draw.  As far as I can see it just
>>>another 'move' indicated by the machine and the operator has no right to move
>>>for the machine.
>>
>>By the same reasoning, the machine claimed the draw incorrectly, so
>>the operator has no right to claim the draw correctly, so he had no choice
>>but to play on (or resign).
>>
>>QED
>>
>>--
>>GCP
>
>I do not understand what you are saying.
>
>My point is based on the following:
>
>1.The contest was between machines.

No, between chess engines.

>2.The machine in question was the entity that was the engine plus the chessbase
>GUI.

OK, but the engine was playing, not the chess GUI.

>3.It would have been better if the machines played without human interference,
>but failing this the operator should not have been able to influenece the
>result.

This was allowed as the operator should have been the one to ask the TD to be
allowed to resign...see Darsen post which is complete...

>4.The machine claimed a draw (ie its 'move' was draw).

No, the machine did not claimed a draw. The GUI advised that there was a 3-moves
repetition. This is not a draw claim.
Since the programmer can set the draw value in it's program. If the setting is
accept a draw only when the score is -50, than the GUI showing a 3 moves
repetition would be ignored by the engine...so this is not a draw claim, but
only a info display...
It is therefore wrong to claim that an info advising a 3 moves repetions is an
automatic draw. The program should state clearly "I am going to play "..." which
will draw the game according to FIDE rule..." this was not done...so the
operator could not force the draw, nor ask for it...

>5.Therefore a draw should have been the result.

No, see above...

>
>So I have missed the point as to why the machine claimed the draw incorrectly.

Did not claim a draw at all!

>I was working on the premise that the GUI (part of the entered machine) said
>draw (point 4).  Is this wrong?

Yes, I hope now it is clear.
>
>Frank

Sandro



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