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Subject: Re: Shredder wins in Graz after controversy

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 16:51:48 12/09/03

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On December 09, 2003 at 19:07:08, Uri Blass wrote:

>On December 09, 2003 at 17:38:11, Frank Phillips wrote:
>
>>On December 09, 2003 at 16:45:37, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>
>>>On December 09, 2003 at 15:14:00, Frank Phillips wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 09, 2003 at 14:45:25, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 09, 2003 at 10:16:51, Frank Phillips wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>This is too subtle for me.  It is an event between machines with the operator
>>>>>>acting as a go between (a mistake in my view).  The machine said draw, >therefore the operator must claim the draw.  As far as I can see it just
>>>>>>another 'move' indicated by the machine and the operator has no right to move
>>>>>>for the machine.
>>>>>
>>>>>By the same reasoning, the machine claimed the draw incorrectly, so
>>>>>the operator has no right to claim the draw correctly, so he had no choice
>>>>>but to play on (or resign).
>>>>>
>>>>>QED
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>GCP
>>>>
>>>>I do not understand what you are saying.
>>>>
>>>>My point is based on the following:
>>>>
>>>>1.The contest was between machines.
>>>
>>>No, between chess engines.
>>
>>;-)
>>
>>>
>>>>2.The machine in question was the entity that was the engine plus the chessbase
>>>>GUI.
>>>
>>>OK, but the engine was playing, not the chess GUI.
>>
>>This where we part company..... (It chose book moves, I believe.).
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>3.It would have been better if the machines played without human interference,
>>>>but failing this the operator should not have been able to influenece the
>>>>result.
>>>
>>>This was allowed as the operator should have been the one to ask the TD to be
>>>allowed to resign...see Darsen post which is complete...
>>>
>>>>4.The machine claimed a draw (ie its 'move' was draw).
>>>
>>>No, the machine did not claimed a draw. The GUI advised that there was a 3-moves
>>>repetition. This is not a draw claim.
>>>Since the programmer can set the draw value in it's program. If the setting is
>>>accept a draw only when the score is -50, than the GUI showing a 3 moves
>>>repetition would be ignored by the engine...so this is not a draw claim, but
>>>only a info display...
>>>It is therefore wrong to claim that an info advising a 3 moves repetions is an
>>>automatic draw. The program should state clearly "I am going to play "..." which
>>>will draw the game according to FIDE rule..."
>
>As far as I know no single program does it according to the fide rules.

There is at least _one_ that now does it _exactly_ according to the FIDE
rules, even though I do not consider this to be important in the human-operated
events...


>
>Even my movei does it by claiming a draw together with the move that it is going
>to play.
>
>No problem with changing the rules of computer chess that are not the fide rules
>but you should tell it to the participants before the championship and not after
>it.
>
>I wonder what happened in other drawn games like Diep-falcon.

SSSSSHHHHHhhhhhhh.  Don't ask questions that have answers some won't
like.  Even shredder (according to others) does _not_ claim the draw
correctly.  But I am sure it has claimed many draws...


>
>Did one of the engines in the game claimed the draw correctly based on your
>definition?
>
>Uri



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