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Subject: Re: How to beat Gothmog

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:53:10 01/09/04

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On January 09, 2004 at 04:29:25, Vasik Rajlich wrote:

>On January 08, 2004 at 12:01:56, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On January 08, 2004 at 10:02:39, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>>
>>>I've been trying to get some good test positions to rewrite my kingsafety with,
>>>and playing Gothmog will give you those :) Usually Zappa is slightly better than
>>>Gothmog.  It is stronger tactically (gets more nps and does not do all dubious
>>>forward pruning) and its mobility is good enough that it plays reasonable moves
>>>most of the time.  Usually Zappa will get its wins in the endgame, but Gothmog
>>>will get in enough king attacks that the score is close.  During one of the test
>>>games, this position came up (Zappa-white, Gothmog-black):
>>>
>>>[D]r2qk2r/pb4pp/3bn3/1P1ppp2/8/BQP5/P2NBPPP/R4RK1 b kq - 4 17
>>>
>>>Where Gothmog evaluated itself as +1, and Zappa thought it was about equal -
>>>which is of course ludicrous since black has a big advantage. I was less than
>>>happy with Zappa being blown off the board in 20 moves and not even realizing
>>>it, so I wrote some code to evaluate control of the board.  But I made a mistake
>>>and tuned it way too high.
>>>
>>>What was amazing was the result.  Every game went like this:
>>>
>>>Zappa pushes pawns
>>>Gothmog sacrifices a piece for the pawns
>>>Gothmog thinks its down .5
>>>Zappa thinks its up 2
>>>Zappa wins back pawns and the game with its extra piece/exchange
>>>
>>>Result: Zappa scores 86% - +18-0=7.
>>>
>>>Moral of the story: If you want to beat Gothmog, triple your space evaluation.
>>>
>>>anthony
>>>
>>>caveat: This was done under Arena, with the arena books, which need a bit of
>>>work.
>>
>>Another moral:  Don't trade a piece for 2-3 pawns.  It will come back to
>>haunt you more than it doesn't.
>
>Bob,
>
>do you have any statistics? It would be interesting to see the scores of an
>engine as the piece vs pawns weight is adjusted. As I vaguely remember Crafty
>has a huge piece weight, 4.2 pawns in middlegame positions (3 for the piece
>itself, 1.2 for the bad trade bonus) even when the bishop pair is not involved.
>
>In my program I use piece == 3.75 pawns if all material is on the board, and
>piece == 2.75 pawns if all material is off the board, with everything scaled
>linearly in between. The bishop pair, if it exists, is a separate bonus. Haven't
>tried to tune it.
>
>Vas


The bad trade idea was to eliminate something I saw happen for 30+ years.
Even Cray Blitz got into trouble and it didn't have nearly as large positional
scores as I am using in Crafty.  Years ago I got tired of seeing the N for 3p
case happen, as except for endgames it almost _always_ loses.



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