Author: margolies,marc
Date: 06:52:28 01/12/04
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Hi Martin! Without digressing too much from the topic of Computer Chess, US culture is neither authoritiarian nor homogeneous, which is partly why it is so invasive elsewhere.( and perhaps degrades the static nature of your definiton of US culture to the breaking point) I think Computer Chess is a much a part of our culture as anything else. Last Week's NY Times Magazine ran an extensive article on how America became a nation of electronic gamers,eg. (Emphasis on shoot'em ups like Quake) While some other games, like Poker, have a folkloric place in our 'Western/Cowboy' culture I think that an argument can be made-- in spite of your personal definition of american culture-- that US interest in automated chess can at least be dated back to the 19th Century when the Turk was displayed for some years on 14th Street in New York City in a Museum --I believe the hidden operator was our Whist and Chess Champion , Harry Nelson Pillsbury. An even more contrved argument about Computer Chess entering "American Culture" would date from the 1840's when Edgar Allen Poe wrote first about the Turk as a Euro-phenom. We do have comp chess enthusiasts in the US and I think our entrpreneurial culture which at its best fosters independent thinking, albeit in an elite and radical subcultures only, has alot to do with it. If you definition is organized about a negation principle-- that is you can demonstrate there is a large anti-intellectual subculture which scoffs at Chess and Computer Chess, the perhaps we could find such bores in Europe as well. The best hope Chess has, in my opinion, for vibrancy is Corporate sponsorship. In 1995, when Intel supported the Match Between Anand versus Kasparov which began on Sept 11th of that year in the twin towers of New York-- it was a shining example of that. Another reason I might say that the US is a computer chess culture is that we are in general a foward looking nation, perhaps naively so. Technology and Captitalism are too temptingly viewed as a long term panacea to World problems here. Computer Chess is as much a part of that equation, used to pump and dump the value of hi-tech shares, as say the popular fiction of Conan Doyle could help foster a conviction in logic and Science to the Eduardian Londoner (In spite of Sir Arthur's belief in fairy hoaxes, eg.) I hope I have made myself explicitly clear now- I did not wish to go off on a tear like this, especially because I am such a big fan of your checkers work. On January 12, 2004 at 03:43:55, martin fierz wrote: >On January 11, 2004 at 21:05:39, margolies,marc wrote: > >>My memory is failing me on this subject...could some one please remind me of the >>following... >>Where is the largest computer chess server in the world located? (is it near >>carnegie-mellon maybe?) >>Where was the largest dedicated chess hardware assembled ? (is it near Hawthorne >>NY maybe) >>What country has the highest per capita pc ownership in the world? >>What country is the world's largest software market? >> >>regarding the finances of the US Chess Federation, how is that a computer-chess >>issue exactly - unless you mean they were merchandisers... >>When was the last (most recent year) that computers were entered in a regular >>USCF event? >>I do not understand why casual players should be required to spend fifty dolars >>a year for the privledge of being nudged by surly overworked amateur TDs who >>often are partisan to local players-- it's a business model which is destined to >>lose money fast in good times and faster in bad times. But this cannot be >>considered a metric of american culture or computer chess. > >what is your post getting at? of course the US has made very significant >contributions to computer chess. but to call computer chess part of "american >culture" is ridiculous. american culture is by (my) definition something that a >significant percentage of americans would participate in or be interested in. >and that is certainly not the case in computer chess. > >cheers > martin > > > >>On January 11, 2004 at 18:16:59, martin fierz wrote: >> >>>On January 11, 2004 at 17:03:12, Mike Byrne wrote: >>> >>>>On January 11, 2004 at 16:42:15, martin fierz wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 11, 2004 at 16:11:06, Tom Kerrigan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 10, 2004 at 16:24:59, Jim Bodkins wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>The US doesnt play chess really. USCF has 90,000 members out of 1/3 billion >>>>>>>people and just went bankrupt (over about $300,000 - chump change to a pro >>>>>>>basketball player) and had to sell its store to an english firm. Most of the top >>>>>>>US players (USCF) are immigrants not native. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I'm a native American, so dont get mad. We play baseball not chess. Chess isnt >>>>>>>culturally a part of the US at all. People (Garry) come here mainly because of >>>>>>>money not chess. Chess software doesnt interest most programmers in my >>>>>>>experience. OS's, databases etc do. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The US will get hammered, but the guys will probably have fun anyway. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>... oh, and we do Mars missions. :) >>>>>> >>>>>>I believe people on this message board have forgotten their history. :) Shannon >>>>>>was American, the revolutionary programs MacHack and CHESS were American, the >>>>>>world champions Belle, Deep Thought, and Cray Blitz were American. >>>>> >>>>>you are forgetting the first computer chess programmer - alan turing, not >>>>>exactly american :-) >>>>> >>>>>>I'd say computer chess is a fairly significant part of American culture. >>>>> >>>>>and this is the wrong way round: some americans made very significant >>>>>contributions to computer chess. but "part of the american culture"?? there are >>>>>many things that come to my mind when i think about american culture, both >>>>>positive and negative (think football, baseball, everbody having guns, free >>>>>speech, the whole idea of the american dream etc). but certainly not computer >>>>>chess... >>>>> >>>>>cheers >>>>> martin >>>> >>>>It is clear that there is much more interest in Chess and Computer Chess in >>>>Europe than in the US, but there are times that chess gets a push in the US - >>>>Fischer in '72, Deep Blue - GK in '96 and '97 - the last Fritz/GK match was >>>>reported regulary in the news ...so I think what we see in the US very latent, >>>>under the right circumstances - it could really tale off again , GK visits the >>>>US quite often and he does a lot to promote chess (book signings, simuls etc) in >>>>the US, I do like him for that. >>>> >>>>According to the Harris polls in 2001 , about 40% of Amercians own guns ...down >>>>from 48% in 1973. Contrast that with Switzerland which has far higher gun >>>>ownership since it is legally mandated for every adult male. >>>> >>>>Getting ot here - but just wanted to point that out. >>> >>>hehe, i didn't know we had a higher figure :-) >>>then again, i believe having guns is much more part of the american culture than >>>the swiss - we are, as you say, forced to take our army rifles home. for most, >>>they end up in the attic, and we would rather not have them there. >>>anyway, i just mentioned some things that spring to my mind when i think about >>>the US and the american way of life or american culture. just to contrast these >>>things with computer chess, which very definitely is not part of the american >>>way of life - of course it is not part of *any* country's culture IMO - it is >>>far too insignificant... >>> >>>cheers >>> martin
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