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Subject: Re: Set the Record straight again, Bob - - -

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 01:22:47 01/26/04

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On January 26, 2004 at 03:54:04, David Dory wrote:

>On January 26, 2004 at 02:14:39, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote:
>
>>On January 25, 2004 at 21:38:27, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On January 25, 2004 at 20:04:16, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>
>>>>- - in a famous German forum the kids are on the streets and they shout:
>>>>
>>>>These old-fashioned Cray Blitz and Deep Blue monuments won't be "disqualified"
>>>>by their authors with actualized Elo numbers.
>>>>
>>>>Is that true? Would these legends lose badly against today's elite of
>>>>computerchess programs?
>>>>
>>>>I'm waiting!
>>>>
>>>>Rolf
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't believe _any_ of them would "lose badly".  Any "super-program" from deep
>>>thought through Cray Blitz would be very tough opponents for today's programs.
>>>However, hardware is beginning to catch up.  Someone just pointed out on a chess
>>>server last night that this quad opteron system I have is about the same speed
>>>as the Cray T90 I ran on in 1995, in terms of raw nodes per second (6-7M back
>>>then, 7-8M typically on the quad opteron).  So it is now probable that Crafty
>>>could actually win a match from Cray Blitz on a T90 with 32 CPUs, assuming I use
>>>the quad opteron.  My quad xeon 700 got ripped by the same machine a couple of
>>>years back, however, so it would still be dangerous.
>>>
>>>I can't say much about how it would compare to other commercial programs as I
>>>didn't run those tests with very little test time to play with the T90.
>>>
>>>The superiority of today's programs over the super-computers of 1995 are mainly
>>>mythical, IMHO.  I suspect the games would be a _lot_ more interesting than some
>>>would believe.  Of course, there is little chance to test such a hypothesis
>>>since most old programs are long-retired, and such hardware is not readily
>>>available today.
>>I disagree.DeepBlue would get slaughtered ;by todays top commercial programs.
>>It is known that standards in the midninties were not very high compared to
>>today.I think you over estimate Nodes per second for some reason.For instance
>>chess Tiger on Palm has a respectable SSDF rating of 2101 searching about
>>only 200 positions per second on the palm.A decade ago at such low NPS it was
>>inconceivable to get such rating.
>
>This is the question, then. Did Deep Blue meet the standards of the 90's or did
>DB blow the lid off those 90's standards?
>
>I believe the latter.
>
>Robert probably "overestimes" node per second because he's old enough to
>remember when those n/s were quite low - and how much that restricted the search
>horizon. The chess programs were almost blind to the game. Indeed, in early
>matches, the authors would agree to simply quit playing because their programs
>just couldn't "understand" the end game. No table bases remember, and inadequate
>search speed to find any way to make progress.
>
>A "blind" chess program is a dumb chess program, and no "higher standards" of
>programming will change that.

Hence - if you take away opening book standard and tablebases of these modern
days? We have the same dumbness, no?!

Rolf



>
>Dave



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