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Subject: Re: List / Crafty 1 ply depth comparison

Author: Mike S.

Date: 08:25:00 01/28/04

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On January 27, 2004 at 14:49:12, Thomas Mayer wrote:

>(...) And as far as I know they did test some positions in a one ply
>search... (Where the search itself does not play such a big role - mainly the
>eval decides about the move choosed in a one ply search...) - and the version of
>List they did test showed almost always the same score and move...

I had not read that yet, which is new info for me, before posting a reply below
where I suggested just that (IOW. that this should have been done first).

Now, I've done just this using the oldest versions of Crafty and List I had
quickly available. I think the theoretical, or suspected, chance of similarities
(or identical output) in such a case is bigger than when newer, further
developed engines are used for the comparison. These were cb-native Crafty 17.14
(run in Fritz 8 GUI) and List 4.61 (WB., run in console mode using the depth and
test options). I took 10 positional test positions, because I thought the chance
of identical moves is generally better then - so that we can compare evals of
the same moves - than in "common" non-test positions. The ply depth was set to 1
ply each. I give the EPD of the positions at the end of the posting. Some of
these pos. are somewhat doubtful in a common testing sense, but I think that
doesn't matter here.

Result:

From 10 positions, 6 identical moves were chosen and 4 moves were different.

From the 6 same moves each, the evaluation ALWAYS was different.

From the 6/10 same moves chosen by both, 3...5 are more or less "obvious" moves,
IOW. easy moves like defending the only attacked pawn or moving a piece out of
the the attack. Take a look at the moves and positions too see how that is
meant. I assume many engines would choose these moves in a one ply search
although I didn't check that.

I think we can see this as exonerating evidence (=Entlastungsmaterial) in
addition to similar contributions by others in several places.

Detailed results (evals from White's view):

Pos.ID  Crafty 17.14  List 4.61
--------------------------------
25         Bd7  0.17  Bd7  -0.07
26        Rcd1  0.58   c5   0.73
27         Rd7 -0.68  Rd7  -0.80
28         Kf6  2.22  Kf6   2.49
29         Bd7 -1.10  Bd7  -0.99
30       Bxc5+ -0.34 Bxc5+ -0.86
31         Bc6  0.59   f4   0.74
32         Bg2  1.09  Re3   1.08
33         Bb7  0.36   f6   1.00
34          c4  1.41   c4   3.52


Regards,
M.Scheidl


r1b2rk1/1p2qppp/1bn1p3/p3P3/8/PNQ3P1/1P1B1PBP/R4RK1 b - - bm a4; id "Mike's Test
2.2, Nr. 25";
r5k1/p2r1bpp/2p2p2/8/n1P5/P5B1/5PPP/2R1RBK1 w - - bm c5; id "Mike's Test 2.2,
Nr. 26";
3r1bk1/p4ppp/Qp2p3/8/1P1B4/Pq2P1P1/2r2P1P/R3R1K1 b - - bm e5; id "Mike's Test
2.2, Nr. 27";
7k/4K1n1/8/6P1/8/3B4/8/8 w - - bm Bg6; id "Mike's Test 2.2, Nr. 28";
r3nrk1/ppq2pbp/2n1b1p1/4pP2/2P5/4BNN1/PP4PP/RQ2KB1R b KQ - bm e4; id "Mike's
Test 2.2, Nr. 29";
8/p2Q2p1/1k3qbp/1pn5/2p4P/2P2P2/5BPK/5B2 w - - bm g3; id "Mike's Test 2.2, Nr.
30";
2r2rk1/1p1bq3/p3p2p/3pPpp1/1P1Q4/P7/2P2PPP/2R1RBK1 b - - bm Bb5; id "Mike's Test
2.2, Nr. 31";
r1n1kb1r/1b3pp1/1qn1p3/p2pP1Bp/Qp1P1N1P/5NPB/PP3P2/2R1R1K1 w kq - bm Nxe6; id
"Mike's Test 2.2, Nr. 32";
1r1r2k1/2b1qp1p/b1p3p1/p1p1p3/2P1P3/1PN1BP2/P1Q3PP/R2R2K1 b - - bm Rd4; id
"Mike's Test 2.2, Nr. 33";
r4k2/2p5/P1pp1n1p/2r2qp1/Q7/6BP/2P2PP1/R3R1K1 w - - bm c4; id "Mike's Test 2.2,
Nr. 34";



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