Author: Joachim Rang
Date: 01:03:57 02/10/04
Go up one level in this thread
On February 09, 2004 at 14:20:54, HelfJens wrote:
>On February 08, 2004 at 22:50:05, Mike Byrne wrote:
>
>>If case you have not figured this out by now, my intent it to continue with
>>posting all 11 of the Nolot positions, dig up the game score from the actual
>>game -- post the orginal comments made by Pierre Nolot (original author of the
>>article where these positions were discussed) and Feng-Hsiung Hsu, Deep Blue
>>Inventor, who was preparing Deep Thought/Deep Blue for the match with Kasparov
>>that was to come in 1995 and took a keen interest in these positions. He
>>believed that if Deep Blue were able to solve these type of positions quickly,
>>Deep Blue would have a very good shot at defeating Kasparov. It is interesting
>>to see what today's software on fast hardware think of these positions.
>>
>>So far these posts have gone very well and I appeciate everyone who has
>>particpated in this excercise.
>>
>>Nolot #3 is a semi-controversial position as there are many doubters that the
>>claimed winning move is truly a forced win. When one also considers the nearly
>>200 point in the ratings of the particpants, it easier to understand why the
>>favored player, GM Sergey Smagin, now 47, played the daring and very complicated
>>Ng5!?. I suspect he would not have played that move if he had been playing
>>Kasparov. GM Dragutin Sahovic is now 63 years young and is still active in the
>>Serbia & Montenegro Chess Federation.
>>
>>
>>
>>[Event "Biel (open) 50/122"]
>>[White "Smagin,S"]
>>[Black "Sahovic,D"]
>>[Date "1990"]
>>[Annotator "Smagin,S"]
>>[WhiteElo "2550"]
>>[BlackElo "2370"]
>>[ECO "B 00"]
>>[Result "1-0"]
>>
>>
>>1. e4 Nc6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 ( 3. Nc3 {Ue 50/(122)} ) 3... Bf5 4. c3 e6 5. Nd2
>>{N} ( 5. Ne2 ) 5... f6 6. f4 fe5 7. fe5 Nh6 8. Ndf3 Nf7 9. Ne2 Be7 10. Ng3
>>Bg4 ( 10... Bg6 11. h4 $16 ) ( 10... g6 $5 ) 11. Bd3 {
>>
>>[d]r2qk2r/ppp1bnpp/2n1p3/3pP3/3P2b1/2PB1NN1/PP4PP/R1BQK2R b KQkq - 0 11
>>
>>I let Crafty 19.10 SE search about two hours just on this move - it was
>>searching the 20th ply deep and was returning a draw score by an apparant
>>repetition. Unfortuanately I had not saved the analysis and I do not feel like
>>running the position again.
>>
>>}
>>11....Ng5 12. Ng5 $3 ( 12.
>>Bg5 Bg5 13. O-O $14 ) 12... Bd1 13. Ne6 Qb8 ( 13... Qd7 14. Bf5 $18 ) 14.
>>Ng7 Kd8 ( 14... Kf7 15. Bh6 $5 ( 15. N7f5 Bg4 16. Nh6 ) 15... Bf8 16. O-O
>>Kg8 17. N7f5 $1 17... Bg4 18. Rf4 $1 18... Bf5 19. Bf5 Nd8 ( 19... Qe8
>>20. Bf8 $18 ) ( 19... Bh6 20. Be6 Kg7 21. Nh5 Kg6 22. Bf7 Kg5 23. h4 {#} )
>>20. Be4 $3 20... Bh6 21. Bd5 Kg7 22. Nh5 Kg6 23. Rf6 Kh5 24. Bf3 Kg5 25.
>>g3 $18 ) 15. Kd1 b5 16. Ne6 Kc8 17. Nf5 Bf8 ( 17... Qb6 18. Nf4 $5 18...
>>Rd8 19. Ne3 $1 $16 ) ( 17... Kb7 18. Bb5 $36 ) 18. Rf1 $1 18... Kb7 (
>>18... Qb6 19. Ne3 $5 $16 ) 19. Bh6 $3 19... Bh6 ( 19... Kb6 20. Ne3 $3 (
>>20. Nf8 $14 ) 20... Bh6 21. Nd5 Ka5 ( 21... Kb7 22. Nc5 Kc8 23. Rf7 {#C5
>>#CCf5+#BB} ) 22. b4 Ka4 23. a3 $1 23... Kb3 24. Nc5 Kb2 25. Rf2 $1 25...
>>Ka1 26. Nb3 {#} ) 20. Nc5 Kc8 21. Nh6 Ne7 22. Be2 Ng6 23. Nf7 $1 {#5B#C5
>>#CCg4##5D} ( 23. Nf7 $1 23... h5 24. Nh8 )
>>1-0
>>
>>========================================================================
>>Comment by Pierre Nolot, published in the July 1994 issue
>>of Gambisco
>>
>>========================================================================
>># Position: 3
>># Move: W
>>
>>r..qk..r Smaguine - Sahovic, Bienne 1990
>>ppp.b.pp White wins with a queen sac but black has several ways to defend
>>..n.p... 12.Nxg5!! Bxd1 13.Nxe6 Qb8 14.Nxg7!! Kf8 15.Bh6! Bg4 16.0-0+
>>...pP.n. 17.Kg8 17.Rf4 +-
>>...P..b. It should take between a few months and a few years for a program
>>..PB.NN. to find 12.Nxg5!!
>>PP....PP
>>R.BQK..R
>>
>>
>>========================================================================
>>Comment by Feng-Hsiung Hsu , Deep Blue Inventor
>>========================================================================
>>White to move
>>
>>8 R * - Q K * - R
>>7 P P P - B - P P
>>6 - * N * P * - *
>>5 * - * P p - N -
>>4 - * - p - * B *
>>3 * - p b * n n -
>>2 p p - * - * p p
>>1 r - b q k - * r
>>
>> a b c d e f g h
>>
>>Source: Smagin-Sahovic, Biel 1990.
>>
>>Solution move is 1. Ng5!. Verified that the move is sound by following
>>the published analysis, but could not play it within one hour time. This
>>is more a positional sac than what would be normally called tactics.
>>
>>========================================================================
>>Additional Comment by Feng-Hsiung Hsu , Deep Blue Inventor
>>========================================================================
>>
>>We took a closer look at this position. 12. Ng5 is a sound positional
>>sac, but depending on the temperament of the player, it might not be
>>the best move. The published annotation gives 12. Bg5 Bg5 13. o-o as
>>+=, but white could play 13. h3 instead and white appears to have a simple
>>positional squeeze. The critical line in the 12. Ng5 variation turns out
>>to be 12. Ng5 Bd1 13. Ne6 Qb8 14. Ng7 Kd8 15. Kd1. Black's queen and rooks
>>are temporarily out of play, black is up a pawn, but white has a protected
>>passed pawn, and lots of pressure. (The annotator gave one line that
>>ended "with the attack":). From DT-2's point of view, The Bg5 line was
>>gaining 0.20 pawn after each iteration, and so was the Ng5 line. Except
>>that the Bg5 line has about a 0.20 pawn lead at the same depth. There
>>appears to be no kill in the Ng5 line when black king goes to d8
>>instead of the f file. Black would have to give up the extra pawn to
>>activate the queen and the rooks, and while white is definitely better, black
>>is not without counter play. On the deepest search that we checked out,
>>black's evaluation stopped dropping at around -1.4 pawns, and black's pieces
>>were becoming active.
>
>
>What about 13. .. Qc8 ( 14. Bf5 Qb8 15. Nxg7+ Kf7 16. Bh6 Bf8 17. 0-0 (no +))?
After 13...Qc8 white wins with 14.Nxg7
Analysis of Shredder 8 on Athlon 1500MHz with 256 MB HAsh:
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 4.0-0+ Kf7xg7 5.Ng3-f5+ Qc8xf5 6.Rf1xf5 Rh8-f8 7.Bc1-e3 Bd1-g4
8.Rf5-f1
³ (-0.27) Depth: 7/20 00:00:00 69kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 4.Rh1-f1+ Kf7xg7 5.Ng3-f5+ Qc8xf5 6.Rf1xf5 Bd1-g4 7.Rf5-f4
h7-h5 8.Bc1-e3
= (-0.24) Depth: 8/25 00:00:00 134kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 4.0-0+ Kf7xg7 5.Ng3-f5+ Qc8xf5 6.Bd3xf5 Ra8-f8 7.Bf5-d7 Rf8xf1+
8.Kg1xf1 Rh8-d8
³ (-0.43) Depth: 9/24 00:00:00 208kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 4.0-0+ Kf7xg7 5.Ng3-f5+ Qc8xf5 6.Bd3xf5 Ra8-f8 7.Bc1-h6+ Kg7xh6
8.Ra1xd1 Rh8-g8 9.Bf5-e6 Rf8xf1+ 10.Rd1xf1
³ (-0.42) Depth: 10/28 00:00:01 465kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 4.Rh1-f1+ Kf7xg7 5.Ng3-f5+ Qc8xf5 6.Bd3xf5 Bd1-h5 7.Bf5-e6
Bh5-f3 8.g2xf3 Nc6xe5
= (-0.17) Depth: 11/30 00:00:03 945kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 4.Rh1-f1+ Kf7xg7 5.Ng3-f5+ Qc8xf5 6.Bd3xf5 Bd1-h5 7.Bf5-e6
Ra8-d8 8.Bc1-e3 Rh8-f8 9.g2-g3
= (-0.17) Depth: 11/30 00:00:03 1041kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 4.Rh1-f1+ Kf7xg7 5.Ng3-f5+ Qc8xf5 6.Bd3xf5 Bd1-h5 7.Bf5-e6
Ra8-d8 8.Bc1-e3 Rh8-f8 9.g2-g3 Rf8xf1+ 10.Ke1-d2 Rf1xa1 11.Be3-h6+ Kg7xh6
³ (-0.42) Depth: 12/32 00:00:05 1672kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 4.0-0+ Kf7xg7 5.Ng3-f5+ Qc8xf5 6.Bd3xf5 Bd1-e2 7.Rf1-f2 Ra8-f8
8.g2-g4 Be2-c4 9.b2-b3 Bc4-b5 10.Bc1-e3
³ (-0.46) Depth: 12/32 00:00:06 2165kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 4.0-0+ Kf7xg7 5.Ng3-f5+ Qc8xf5 6.Bd3xf5 Bd1-e2 7.Rf1-f2 Rh8-f8
8.Bf5xh7 Kg7xh7 9.Rf2xf8 Ra8xf8
³ (-0.43) Depth: 13/34 00:00:12 4040kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 4.Rh1-f1+ Kf7xg7 5.Ng3-f5+ Qc8xf5 6.Bd3xf5 Bd1-h5 7.Bf5-e6
Ra8-d8 8.Bc1-e3 Rh8-e8 9.Be6xd5 Rd8xd5 10.Rf1-f6
³ (-0.57) Depth: 14/39 00:00:25 8617kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 4.Rh1-f1+ Kf7xg7 5.Ng3-f5+ Qc8xf5 6.Bd3xf5 Bd1-h5 7.Bc1-e3
Nc6-a5 8.b2-b3 Ra8-f8 9.Ke1-d2 Bh5-g6 10.Bf5xg6 h7xg6 11.Rf1xf8 Rh8xf8 12.Ra1-e1
³ (-0.52) Depth: 15/39 00:00:47 15656kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 4.0-0+ Kf7xg7 5.Ng3-f5+ Qc8xf5 6.Bd3xf5 Ra8-f8 7.Bc1-e3 Bd1-e2
8.Rf1-f2 Be2-c4 9.Bf5xh7 Rh8xh7 10.Be3-h6+ Rh7xh6 11.Rf2-f7+ Kg7xf7 12.Ra1-f1+
Bc4xf1 13.e5-e6+ Rh6xe6
³ (-0.55) Depth: 16/45 00:01:37 32297kN
3.Bd3-f5 Qc8-b8 4.0-0 Be7-h4 5.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 6.Bf5-e6+ Kf7-g6 7.Ng3-f5 Nc6xd4
8.c3xd4 Bd1-a4
³ (-0.54) Depth: 16/45 00:01:57 38636kN
3.Bd3-f5 Qc8-b8 4.0-0 g7-g6 5.Ne6-g7+ Ke8-d8 6.Ng7-e6+ Kd8-d7 7.Bf5-h3 Nc6xe5
8.d4xe5 Bd1-h5 9.Bc1-e3 Qb8-g8 10.Ne6-f4+ Kd7-e8 11.Ng3xh5 Ke8-d8 12.Nf4xd5
= (-0.20) Depth: 16/45 00:02:30 49741kN
3.Bd3-f5 Qc8-b8 4.0-0 g7-g6 5.Ne6-g7+ Ke8-d8 6.Ng7-e6+ Kd8-d7 7.Bf5-h3 Bd1-c2
8.Ne6-g7+ Bc2-f5 9.Ng3xf5 g6xf5 10.Rf1xf5 Kd7-d8 11.Ng7-e6+ Kd8-d7 12.Ne6-g7
Kd7-d8 13.Ng7-e6+ Kd8-d7 14.Ne6-g7 Kd7-d8
= (0.00) Depth: 17/47 00:03:46 73305kN
3.Bd3-f5 Qc8-b8 4.0-0 g7-g6 5.Ne6-g7+ Ke8-d8 6.Ng7-e6+ Kd8-d7 7.Bf5-h3 Nc6xe5
8.d4xe5 Bd1-h5 9.Bc1-e3 Kd7-e8 10.Ng3xh5 Rh8-g8 11.Ne6-g7+ Ke8-d8 12.Ng7-e6+
= (-0.01) Depth: 18/48 00:06:14 121289kN
3.Bd3-f5 Qc8-b8 4.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 5.Bc1-h6 Be7-f8 6.0-0 Bf8xg7 7.Bf5xh7+ Kf7-e6
8.Bh7-f5+ Ke6-f7 9.Bf5-h7+ Kf7-e6 10.Bh7-f5+ Ke6-f7 11.Bf5-h7+ Kf7-e6
= (0.06) Depth: 19/55 00:16:29 327777kN
3.Bd3-f5 Qc8-b8 4.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f7 5.Bc1-h6 Be7-f8 6.0-0 Bf8xg7 7.Bf5xh7+ Kf7-e7
8.Bh6-g5+ Ke7-e6 9.Bh7-f5+ Ke6-f7 10.Bf5-e4+ Kf7-e6 11.Be4-f5+ Ke6-f7 12.Bf5-e4+
Kf7-e6 13.Be4-f5+ Ke6-f7
= (0.08) Depth: 20/58 00:36:43 736245kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f8 4.Bd3-f5 Qc8xf5 5.Ng3xf5 Ra8-c8
= (0.09) Depth: 20/58 00:41:48 828767kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-f8 4.Bd3-f5 Qc8xf5 5.Ng3xf5 Ra8-c8 6.Ke1xd1 Rc8-b8
² (0.44) Depth: 20/58 00:45:31 894219kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-d8 4.Bd3-f5 Qc8-b8 5.Ke1xd1 Nc6-a5 6.Ng7-e6+ Kd8-d7 7.Ne6-f4+
Kd7-c6 8.Bf5-e6 Be7-g5 9.Be6xd5+ Kc6-b6 10.b2-b4 Na5-c6 11.Kd1-c2 Rh8-f8
12.Bd5xc6 Bg5xf4 13.Bc1xf4
+- (1.65) Depth: 20/58 04:37:52 5119845kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-d8 4.Bd3-f5 Qc8-b8 5.Ng7-e6+ Kd8-c8 6.Ne6-g5+ Kc8-d8 7.Ng5-f7+
Kd8-e8 8.Nf7xh8 Bd1-a4 9.Bf5xh7 Nc6xd4 10.c3xd4 Be7-b4+ 11.Ke1-e2 Ke8-d7
12.Nh8-g6 Qb8-g8 13.Bh7xg8
+- (1.90) Depth: 21/55 05:22:26 5878291kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-d8 4.Bd3-f5 Qc8-b8 5.Ng7-e6+ Kd8-e8 6.Ke1xd1 Nc6-a5 7.Ng3-h5 a7-a6
8.Ne6-g5 h7-h6 9.Nh5-g7+ Ke8-f8 10.Ng5-e6+ Kf8-g8 11.Bf5-g6 Qb8-c8 12.Rh1-f1
Qc8-d7 13.Rf1-f7 Na5-c6 14.Bc1-e3 Nc6-d8 15.Ne6xd8
+- (1.90) Depth: 21/55 05:25:19 5929717kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-d8 4.Bd3-f5 Qc8-b8 5.Ng7-e6+ Kd8-e8 6.Ke1xd1 Nc6-a5 7.Ng3-h5 a7-a6
8.Ne6-g5 Be7xg5 9.Bc1xg5 h7-h6 10.Nh5-f6+ Ke8-f7 11.e5-e6+ Kf7-g7 12.Nf6-d7
Qb8-e8 13.Bg5-f6+ Kg7-g8 14.Bf6xh8 Kg8xh8 15.Kd1-c2
+- (2.04) Depth: 22/55 06:39:27 7237906kN
3.Ne6xg7+ Ke8-d8 4.Bd3-f5 Qc8-b8 5.Ng7-e6+ Kd8-d7 6.Ke1xd1 Nc6-a5 7.Ne6-f4+
Kd7-c6 8.Bf5-e6 b7-b5 9.Rh1-f1 Qb8-e8 10.Nf4xd5 Be7-d8 11.Be6-f7 Qe8-d7
12.Nd5-b4+ Kc6-b6 13.e5-e6 Qd7xf7 14.Rf1xf7
+- (2.10) Depth: 23/59 09:37:13 10355239kN
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