Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 09:09:23 02/18/04
Go up one level in this thread
On February 18, 2004 at 10:11:52, Steven Edwards wrote: >On February 18, 2004 at 07:58:10, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>On February 18, 2004 at 06:34:56, Steven Edwards wrote: >>>On February 18, 2004 at 05:21:33, Tord Romstad wrote: >>>>On February 17, 2004 at 19:33:52, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>>>>((((((((((a b c)(a))))))(((())))))(((()))) >>>>> >>>>>Sentences like above are not so easy to understand. C is way easier. >>>> >>>>But the line of Lisp "code" above doesn't do anything. It isn't code >>>>at all in any meaningful sense of the word. I would even claim that >>>>you would never even see anything like the above line in a Lisp program, >>>>unless it is written by an incompetent Lisper or it is deliberately >>>>obfuscated. >>> >>>Tord is correct, except no Lisp coder could be _that_ incompetent. >>> >>>>>AFAIK only some grey old emacs fans write their stuff in LISP. >>> >>>Vincent, you need to get out more and get to know programmers who are not all >>>members of single narrow domain. >> >>You're talking to yourself. > >Not quite. Seriously, you sometimes seem to have an eye for detials, but your >overall credibility is subject to ruin every time you express yet another >unfounded generalization. > >>>>Emacs Lisp is an old, ugly and inefficient Lisp dialect, and doesn't >>>>really belong in this discussion. >>> >>>Emacs Lisp (samples in all the *.el files in the Emacs distribution) is well >>>suited for its purpose. Emacs works remarkably fast considering its power of >>>expressibility and extendibility. It also proves false the hoary old >>>misconception that "Lisp is slow". >> >>$ emacs diep.ini & >> >>EMACS is dead slow. It takes like 20 seconds to start it the first time. > >Launching Emacs on my 400 MHz G4 PPc Macintosh takes less than a second. The >process is nearly instantaneous on by 1 GHz PPC and my 1.13 GHz P3. Perhaps you >are using a TRS-80? Dual K7 2.127Ghz, it toasts your macintosh everywhere. Also at universities emacs never loads quick. Only after you have loaded it 1 time it is faster next time (i guess caching). Note Emacs is in C (the core). Oh wait i let it start default with escape-x global-font-lock-mode :) That for the entire diep C source code :) No editor under windows has problems with that, despite that under windows it's 100000x better. >>That's sick long for just editting a simple textfile. > >If you knew a sufficient variety of programmers, you would know that Emacs, >properly installed, launches quickly. > >>Emacs is the only editor i use under linux because i know how to modify it's >>lisp (when i have the time to remember that and do it) and because i remember a >>lot of its cryptic commands. >> >>Yet it is not so fun to edit source code with it. It works a lot slower there >>and it is in fact dead slow without redefining function keys in LISP. >> >>The only reason i work under windows at the moment is because of superior >>editors under windows. > >It was because of the general poor quality of Windows and other MS software that >I had to use professionally for 25+ years that I do not have a single MS product >in my home. > >>>>>When i define something in LISP there i continuesly make (((()))((())) >>>>>mistakes. >>> >>>Almost all of this goes away after a few days of Lisp programming experience. >> >>I guess if you live in hell you will get used to it too. > >You shouldn't give up on learning something important if it takes more than a >few tries. Becoming a decent Lisper takes more than a few sessions. It's >similar to becoming really good at intercourse: you need more than a week plus >access to at least one other person who knows what they're doing. > >>Additionally i have great colorization of my source code in C because there is >>many great editors for it. LISP is not supported in any of these editors. > >Wrong again. For years editors (like the one from Metrowerks) have had >customizable syntax coloring that lights up Lisp keywords as well as doing >balance/selection based on syntax. You need to try more editors. > >>Note all these features are needed for beginning programmers. I nowadays write a >>lot of code which only needs to get compiled only once. Zero errors. > >Too bad you don't have an editor that will remove false generalizations from >your postings. > >>Emacs is a very slow development environment where still the lemma applies that >>programmers on average program 0.5 source code lines an hour with. > >See my previous comment.
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