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Subject: Re: Symbolic: A doomed effort, or it's time to get my lead-lined jockstr

Author: Gareth McCaughan

Date: 18:16:23 02/19/04

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Martin Fierz wrote:

[I said:]
>> 1. What Steven's trying to do and what you're trying to do
>> are entirely different things.

[Martin:]
> yes, of course. but when some people write how fast you can write programs in
> lisp, and that that is the main advantage over C, then i simply have to state
> that the only lisp-chessprogram i know of is *not* at all looking like a fast
> development. it seems that whatever steven wants to do, he cannot do very
> quickly with standard lisp.

Right. He's trying to solve an AI problem. AI is hard. And he's
trying to do a bunch of other (to my mind somewhat irrelevant)
things too, like speech recognition. Some of those other things
are hard too.

> perhaps the lisp fans know of some different engine that was implemented in 2
> days or so, if that is the case i would like to hear about it. as long as i
> don't hear of such things, i have to assume that developing a chess program in
> lisp is not going to cut your development time significantly.

I've never implemented a chess program in Lisp, but I have
written a truly awful one in Python, a language whose advantages
for rapid development are similar to those of Lisp. It took me
a weekend.

(It was truly awful not only because it was written in a weekend,
but also because (a) it was *meant* to play weakly, so as to provide
a suitable opponent for a 5-year-old friend of mine, and (b) Python
is a terrible language to use if you want to write a chess program
that plays well, because there's basically no way to make it run at
near-C speeds. But, still, it wasn't entirely a toy. It spoke the
winboard/xboard protocol (with a bit of an accent), it searched in
a fairly sensible way (alpha-beta, qsearch, some search extensions),
and so on.)

I'm a pretty good C programmer, but I'd be surprised if I could
write an equivalent program in C over a weekend. But I'm sure I
could do it in Common Lisp about as easily as I did in Python,
and it would run faster and therefore play better.

--
g



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