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Subject: Re: Question about aspiration search

Author: Fabien Letouzey

Date: 06:20:45 03/25/04

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On March 25, 2004 at 09:01:34, Sune Fischer wrote:

>On March 25, 2004 at 08:32:05, Fabien Letouzey wrote:
>
>>On March 25, 2004 at 08:11:08, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>
>>>On March 25, 2004 at 07:47:02, Fabien Letouzey wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>So was I.  You have only solved the problem along the PV.  It _still_ exists
>>>>>along non-PV moves just as I explained...
>>>>>
>>>>>this has nothing to do with aspiration issues...
>>>>
>>>>Yes of course it does not fix all the problems, I should have stated
>>>>it.  However I think I gain some "stability" (and a complete PV as a
>>>>side effect) at the cost of a 1-ply search (sometimes more) all along
>>>>the PV.  For some reason, I did not consider turning hashing off
>>>>everywhere in the tree :)
>>>>
>>>>The tradeoff in my design is that null-window searches can do what
>>>>they want (forward prune, be inconsistent, etc ...), and the pv-node
>>>>search will try to accomodate with that.
>>>>
>>>>Fabien.
>>
>>>I recall having read about something similar, namely extending the PV to make
>>>sure the line is sound.
>>
>>>I believe the conclusion was that it didn't work so well, that the PV was no
>>>more important than the refutations and there was no a priori reason to be
>>>extending it.
>>
>>I have read this threat, but what I do is different.

>Technically it is different, but I what I was trying to getting at, is that the
>idea of using one type of search (more or less accurate) for PV nodes and
>another type of search for the others, might not work(?).

The search is not different; same depth everywhere, same quiescence, etc ...
The only thing is that some values are not trusted and instead are recalculated.

>It seems to me it could be a source of instability.

Maybe, but I think not more unstable than trusting values with different drafts
at PV nodes.  I've had enough problems with those in the past.

Furthermore Joachim Rang has run a series of gauntlet tournements which show no
difference in strength (as compared with a version that probes "normally" at PV
nodes), although I obviously have to search more nodes.

>>There is no extra depth anywhere.
>>My 1-ply thing is because I don't use hash-table values at PV nodes, so Fruit
>>needs a 1-ply search to find it again (and 1-ply search at the PV node son etc
>>...).
>
>"find it again"? Do you mean the PV move?

No, the value.  It is not trusted so it has to be "rediscovered" by a 1-ply
search (or more).

>Even if you don't want to cut on a pv you could still get the hash move to try.
>Although I don't see a reason not to cut if the HT says cutting is fine.

Of course I use the move for move ordering!
One reason not to read the value is to have a complete PV.
I have mentionned another one above.

>>At each PV node (usually a single line), all siblings are searched.

>I'm a bit fuzzy on the siblings, a PV sibling?
>I don't think I know what that is. :)

Me too, I should not be using it.
I think you got my explanation about the 1-ply search along the PV anyway.

Fabien.




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