Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: check extention explosion

Author: Vasik Rajlich

Date: 04:10:46 04/05/04

Go up one level in this thread


On April 04, 2004 at 11:13:18, Aivaras Juzvikas wrote:

>On April 04, 2004 at 11:09:05, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>
>>On April 04, 2004 at 11:03:07, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>
>>>On April 04, 2004 at 10:55:38, Aivaras Juzvikas wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 04, 2004 at 10:48:55, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 03, 2004 at 06:29:13, Aivaras Juzvikas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 03, 2004 at 06:21:51, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On April 03, 2004 at 04:02:57, Aivaras Juzvikas wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>i have got this problem here, check extention explodes in the endgame pawns +
>>>>>>>>rook or queen, all these open files make it possible to check endlessly. how to
>>>>>>>>restrict this? i added smth like this: if ply > depthtoreach + 4 then dont
>>>>>>>>extend, where depthtoreach is the depth im searching to. but this is ofcourse
>>>>>>>>not very good, because i still get those check extentions where its impossible
>>>>>>>>to mate anyway. how did u solve this problem? an idea would be to store info
>>>>>>>>into transposition table when not to extend, but how to find that out?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Are you extending checks, check evasions, or both?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The third option is quite appealing, but there are some issues. :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>Vas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>when side to move in in check i extend, so i guess it would be a check evasion
>>>>>
>>>>>So, in certain positions, you are extending every other move. It's true that in
>>>>>these positions this will severely hurt your nominal depth, but if you test with
>>>>>the extension and without it you should see a clear benefit. I don't remember
>>>>>any claims to the contrary.
>>>>>
>>>>>Vas
>>>>
>>>>well here is a claim to the contrary: in endgame rook+pawns vs rook+pawns
>>>>instead of dealing with passed pawns the engine keeps on extending checks
>>>>endlessly thus overall looking very few ply ahead and the result is a loss of a
>>>>rook due to pawn promotion. usually (w/o endless check extention stuff) i reach
>>>>15-17 ply depth in endgame, with check ext. stuff i get 7-8ply, and again only
>>>>when slider like rook or queen is present which can keep on checking no matter
>>>>what you do. dont u restrict your extentions somehow? please share with me how
>>>>to do this
>>>
>>>Aha. That's a good point, maybe it's worth testing.
>>>
>>>My program Rybka always extends every check one full ply.
>>>
>>>However, maybe it should be a bit less in the endgame, and perhaps even a bit
>>>more in the middlegame. (This I did experiment with.)
>>>
>>>This is worth some tests.
>>>
>>>It would be interesting if you posted some numbers. (You can always find some
>>>good cases, and some bad cases.)
>>>
>>>Vas
>>
>>One more thought about this: in the endgame, it may be a question of calibrating
>>against pawn push extensions. (Ie rather than decrease the check extension,
>>increase the pawn push extension.)
>>
>>A few months ago I played around with some hyper-aggressive passed pawn
>>extensions, up to 3 plies extra for any pawn which reaches the seventh rank in
>>an endgame.
>>
>>It worked nicely on some tactical problems, but there were also some exploding
>>searches.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Vas
>
>my engine is brand new and instead of many features it has many bugs -> the only
>extention i have now is this check (evasion i guess) extention. so meybe instead
>of restricting this extention i should add pawn on 7th rank extention and see
>how it does. what else is there in endgames to deal with besides mates and
>promotions?is there any other must-have extention i am missing?

I guess that pawn push extensions are pretty standard. Aside from that, everyone
has their own little tricks.

For example, in endgames, I reduce moves which capture an advanced passed pawn,
and I reduce promotions.

I'm not 100% sure that it's a good idea, though. It's very difficult to get good
feedback on obscure situations, because any test you devise could be biased in
some way.

Cheers,
Vas



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.