Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Hashing is a complicated affair ?

Author: Peter Fendrich

Date: 09:58:09 04/08/04

Go up one level in this thread


On April 07, 2004 at 01:22:53, rasjid chan wrote:

>On April 06, 2004 at 17:01:12, Peter Fendrich wrote:
>
>>On April 06, 2004 at 16:34:27, Bo Persson wrote:
>>
>>>On April 06, 2004 at 11:12:50, Peter Fendrich wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Agree, but most interesting is how often. It must be much more often in MTD.
>>>>I just have presentiment of that the increased entry size wont pay off in PVS
>>>>with that much more cut offs.
>>>>
>>>
>>>But there is an additional value, besides the potential cutoffs. In the PV
>>>search, the bounds might also help you reduce your window by moving alpha, or
>>>beta, or both. Even if you don't get an immediate cutoff, you might get a pruned
>>>tree.
>>>
>>>I once tried this by mistake, while moving from PVS to MTD(f). I started by
>>>implementing the two bounds in my hash table, but forgot to add the modified
>>>root search. It still reduced the search tree significantly, maybe 20%.
>>>
>>>
>>>Bo Persson
>>
>>Fooling around with alpha/beta values is nasty business and would require
>>thorough testing, at least in my program!
>>Reduced tree size mustn't necessary be a good sign here...
>>/Peter
>
>feedback for your info - I have now completed implementing ETC and
>I think it is "well done" because it is not relatively tough.
>
>I don't test but use my eyes + log printout and it seems beneficial
>and no hint that it is a drag on performance, but seems to search slightly
>deeper... [sum of many slightlies] == better.

Ok, but maybe a little test would useful anyway :-)

>Now I'm introduced to hashing[LB, UB].
>
>ETC make use of bounds info and MAYBE 2 bounds better than one.
>There are 2 passes of looping thru the moves and we may have a cutoff in
>the 1st pass or, as alpha improves in the 2nd pass,more moves may be pruned.

>Added to the above, a raw guess is ETC + 2 bounds may be more beneficial
>to MTDf. The average probability that a node fails high is much higher
>in MTDf than in other algorithms... but PVS is also most of the time
>null window.

Well ETC increases the probe rate (I think...) and the usefulness of 2 bounds
increases so maybe you're right. It would be interesting to test. I'll put on my
already too long todo-list.
/Peter

>Rasjid



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.