Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 07:04:36 05/10/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 10, 2004 at 09:57:19, Uri Blass wrote: >On May 10, 2004 at 09:45:20, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On May 10, 2004 at 09:42:09, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>On May 10, 2004 at 08:11:34, Sune Fischer wrote: >>> >>>>On May 10, 2004 at 07:33:38, martin fierz wrote: >>>> >>>>>there are instances where pushing pawns in front of your king is ok. there are >>>>>others where it's not ok. they are rather easy to distinguish most of the time >>>>>(some simple rules are sufficient for this) and i'm surprised that you don't >>>>>understand that it's not such a great idea here... >>>> >>>>Rules of thumb are good but not great, there are always exceptions and computers >>>>are experts at finding them. It is possible that all other moves simply lose >>>>faster. >>>> >>>>>i know you are a born >>>>>skeptic, but perhaps you should learn to trust people with more experience >>>>>sometimes :-) >>>> >>>>Sometimes, but maybe not this time ;) >>>>Just look at the thread below >>>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?364474 >>>> >>>>I don't 100% trust analysis made without computer assistance, even when it comes >>>>from GM's. It is only too human to err. >>>> >>>>>i'm not going as far as vincent of course to say that "after ...g5 white wins >>>>>with eyes shut". that is not true of course. but it's obvious that things aren't >>>>>progressing normally here if you have to play ...g5. >>>> >>>>I think the original intent was to show that DB was not at the level of "modern" >>>>programs _because_ it played g5. Now we have other programs playing it too so >>>>this bit of "proof" goes out the window, IMO. >>> >>>However it played like 7 very poor moves in game 1 and that for every game >>>except game 6 and game 2 it just made a few (shuffle moves are not good but are >>>not losing the game sometimes). >>> >>>Antonnie just quoted here what was wrong in his eyes, but there is a shitload of >>>other very poor moves. >>> >>>Let me just first tell you that deep blue was very soon out of book. >>> >>>Starting with move 3 where it already makes a mistake : >>> >>>3 .. Nd7? best is bxf3 diep plays bxf3 and not nd7. >>>10.. h6? very poor move. lucky diep doesn't play that. 10..e5 looks better >>> but important is to avoid h6 >>>11.. Qa5? very poor move, better is for example Qe7 >>>12.. Bc7? very poor move. A real NULLMOVE >>>13.. g5? very poor move now there is no way to escape from a zero against >>> even poor shuffle players >>>16.. Qb6 this is not the best move >>>22.. g4? >>> >>>I hope you realize Seirawan had an easy job commenting on these games. The bad >>>moves made are *so* poor, that he has hardly time to give better alternatives >>>for choice mistakes like 16..Qb6. >>> >>>I am sure you do not realize it, but if you play 2 moves like Qb6 against >>>kasparov in a normal game you're dead. >>> >>>Deep Blue plays however 6 completely losing moves in this game so all the poor >>>moves we do not even discuss here. We just discuss at the utmost beginners level >>>here. Not even at the higher levels where making wrong choices loses already. >>> >>>Best regards, >>>Vincent >> >>by the way, i hope you realize in game 1, kasparov also played utmost beginners >>level. He later complained a few years later that he had to do so much effort to >>lose that first game and didn't manage to lose it despite that. > >Nonsense. >If you want to lose a game against computer one poor move is enough. >You only need to resign in one move or to do some tactical blunder. > >You also do not play quiet opening against computers if you want to lose. > >Of course kasparov never claimed that he tried to lose by playing poor moves >without success but nothing will stop you to post lies. > >Unfortunately Kasparov cannot go to court against Vincent Diepeveen to get some >money because Vincent is probably going to deny that he wrote the posts that you >posted(The only thing that I can say for Vincent is that maybe he is not you). > >Uri You lack a rating point or 2500 socially to understand that there is a difference between moves that directly lose the game and subtle moves that lose the game which are subtle mistakes. there is a whole scala of move quality between the two.
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