Author: Sandro Necchi
Date: 01:06:03 05/16/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 15, 2004 at 17:37:48, John Merlino wrote: >On May 15, 2004 at 16:48:10, James T. Walker wrote: > >>On May 15, 2004 at 12:22:16, John Merlino wrote: >> >>>On May 15, 2004 at 10:30:51, James T. Walker wrote: >>> >>>>On May 14, 2004 at 21:11:54, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 14, 2004 at 20:30:24, James T. Walker wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 14, 2004 at 20:01:50, John Merlino wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 14, 2004 at 19:19:18, Alex wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On May 14, 2004 at 17:16:03, John Merlino wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On May 14, 2004 at 15:42:13, Terry Giles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On May 14, 2004 at 15:07:54, John Merlino wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Finally, there's something to see about the next version of Chessmaster >>>>>>>>>>>(apparently officially called "Chessmaster 10th Edition"): >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/chessmasterx_pc.htm >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>As expected (by me), the interface is entirely new, since the program is being >>>>>>>>>>>developed by the same team that did the PS2 version. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>From what I can glean from the info on the website, it sounds like the majority >>>>>>>>>>>of the work has gone into redesigning the UI and improving the online play. I >>>>>>>>>>>don't see any new exciting tutorial/analysis features, other than Johan's new >>>>>>>>>>>version of The King. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>So it sounds like they're going to sell the program based on the merits of the >>>>>>>>>>>new interface. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I also see a hint that there is an Xbox version in the works as well. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>As for an official release date, there isn't one mentioned. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Enjoy! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>jm >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Thanks for the info John, sad to say that all the screenshots shown are of >>>>>>>>>>'arty-farty' chesspieces and board combinations. I'm currently running CM9k on a >>>>>>>>>>PII @ 400Mhz, so unless I go for a major upgrade PC wise, the CM10th anniversary >>>>>>>>>>program will prove too demanding for my computer! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>tag >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Yep, the min spec says P3-450, so I don't think this will be for you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>But I would definitely say it's time to upgrade, especially if you are a fan of >>>>>>>>>computer chess! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>jm >>>>>>>> Yah whatever! Look--don't get me wrong......... I am a fan. BUT! let's face >>>>>>>>it -- the delivery in regard to online features and quality of chessmaster as >>>>>>>>historically presented and advertised is almost criminal in my opinion! Yah -- >>>>>>>>3d sets...I am with KURT U. on this one! I ALWAYS actually play on 2d sets! >>>>>>>>Annnnnnnnnnnnnd........last but not least let's talk about engine.......is it >>>>>>>>reworked or is it JUST a new "personality setting"? Alex >>>>>>> >>>>>>>To answer your comments: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-- I almost always use the 2D sets, too. But many of the 3D sets are playable >>>>>>>(particularly the "flat" ones) and have the advantage that they can be resized >>>>>>>to any desired amount. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-- The engine is new. It's got a new version number and everything -- just like >>>>>>>the engine in CM9000, which tests show is anywhere between 100-150 points >>>>>>>stronger than the previous version. Somehow I don't see that as "JUST a new >>>>>>>'personality setting'". >>>>>>> >>>>>>>jm >>>>>> >>>>>>Somehow I don't believe the "100-150 points stronger". In the history of >>>>>>commercial computer chess I have never seen that big of a jump in rating at one >>>>>>time. In fact the improvements in strength lately have been almost >>>>>>unrecognizable. I am at the point of giving up on buying more chess programs >>>>>>and faster computers for a couple of years. My blitz test show Fritz 8 is about >>>>>>11 points stronger than Fritz 7. Big deal. It seems that improvements in the >>>>>>opening book make it look stronger for a while untill book learning negates the >>>>>>new lines. Then the real improvement shows itself. Just my opinion of course. >>>>>>Jim >>>>> >>>>>The last upgrade for ChessMaster: >>>>>Chessmaster 8000 128MB K6-2 450 MHz 2520 44 -45 251 45% 2552 >>>>>Chessmaster 9000 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2720 36 -36 376 55% 2682 >>>>> >>>>>200 Elo increase. How much was hardware? >>>>> >>>>>For Chess Tiger 14.0, same program on those two machines: >>>>>Chess Tiger 14.0 CB 128MB K6-2 450 MHz 2640 23 -23 905 55% 2608 >>>>>Chess Tiger 14.0 CB 256MB Athlon 1200 2719 30 -30 557 61% 2640 >>>>>diff = 79 Elo >>>>> >>>>>For Chess Tiger 15.0, same program on those two machines: >>>>>Chess Tiger 15.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz 2666 34 -33 433 52% 2651 >>>>>Chess Tiger 15.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2719 23 -22 983 58% 2659 >>>>>diff = 53 Elo >>>>> >>>>>For Fritz 7.0, same program on those two machines: >>>>>Fritz 7.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz 2633 38 -37 348 53% 2611 >>>>>Fritz 7.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2744 29 -28 634 63% 2653 >>>>>diff = 111 Elo >>>>> >>>>>For Hiarcs 8.0, same program on those two machines: >>>>>Hiarcs 8.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz 2588 33 -34 440 42% 2648 >>>>>Hiarcs 8.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2684 22 -22 996 53% 2663 >>>>>diff = 96 Elo >>>>> >>>>>For Junior 7.0, same program on those two machines: >>>>>Junior 7.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz 2634 21 -21 1143 56% 2591 >>>>>Junior 7.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2702 24 -23 881 54% 2674 >>>>>diff = 68 Elo >>>>> >>>>>For Rebel Century 4.0, same program on those two machines: >>>>>Rebel Century 4.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz 2569 52 -53 178 46% 2595 >>>>>Rebel Century 4.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2677 29 -29 590 60% 2606 >>>>>diff = 108 Elo >>>>> >>>>>For Shredder 6.0, same program on those two machines: >>>>>Shredder 6.0 UCI 128MB K6-2 450 MHz 2618 43 -43 264 52% 2607 >>>>>Shredder 6.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2723 31 -30 547 62% 2634 >>>>>diff = 105 Elo >>>>> >>>>>For Shredder 7.0, same program on those two machines: >>>>>Shredder 7.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2772 27 -25 801 70% 2624 >>>>>Shredder 7.0 UCI 128MB K6-2 450 MHz 2699 34 -34 429 54% 2669 >>>>>diff = 73 Elo >>>>> >>>>>Average Elo elevation for hardware change is: >>>>> (79 + 53 + 111 + 96 + 68 + 108 + 105 + 73)/8 = 693/8 = 87 Elo >>>>> >>>>>Therefore, 200 - 87 = 113 was the last increase for ChessMaster (approximately) >>>>>Hence, 100-150 Elo would be par for the course. >>>> >>>>Thanks for the stats Dann. Do you know if CM9K was tested using original >>>>default settings or what? >>>>Jim >>> >>>The SSDF tested the program with original settings EXCEPT a larger hash table >>>and increased selective search value (to 9, I believe). Other than that, it was >>>the default. >>> >>>jm >> >>I seem to rember they used the "SKR" settings. Also not sure if they ran CM9K >>in the Chessbase GUI with a book not ChessMasters. I would be interested in the >>facts. My memory is very poor these days. >>Jim > >I know that they started to use the SKR settings, and lots of people complained >that The King was getting special treatment, using "optimized" settings rather >than "out of the box" settings. The SSDF then stopped testing the SKR settings >and went back to the "slightly modified default". > >I do not recall if a different book was used, but it might have been. I don't >remember either.... > >jm The complains where about to use it in a different GUI and with a different book as this was never been done by SSDF, not about different settings. Normally SSDF ask the programmer the best setting with what is available. If these info are given they will test it as suggested. Sandro
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