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Subject: Re: List of participants for WCCC

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 17:20:28 05/17/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 17, 2004 at 11:59:21, Matthew Hull wrote:

>On May 15, 2004 at 03:15:20, Amir Ban wrote:
>
>>On May 14, 2004 at 20:03:35, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>
>>>On May 14, 2004 at 18:26:54, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 14, 2004 at 12:32:26, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 14, 2004 at 12:16:57, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 13, 2004 at 20:17:42, Russell Reagan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Not anyone can play. Only people who have several thousand dollars and
>two >>>>weeks >>to burn can play. I don't know many people in that situation,
>or at >>>>least if >>they are in that situation and participated, the locks
>would be >>>>changed when >>they returned home from the trip :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>FYI, travel costs and hardware are sponsored by the organisation.
>>>>>
>>>>>No, they are not.  $2000 dollars is not sponsored by the organization,
>neither >>>>the hotel, nor the paid time off for two weeks.  The entire
>situation is >>>>calculated to discourage American participation.  The physical
>format is >>>>calculated to permit cheating, as was done with the illeagal
>throwing of a >>>>drawn game to the eventual "winner".  It is a corrupt
>establishment designed to >>>>cater to European interests, and to snub
>Americans. >>>>It is therefore an irrelevant contest, just like the FIDE World
>Championship is >>>>completely irrelevant.
>>>>>:)
>>>>>
>>>>>CCT is now the venue for true WORLD comptetition, instead of just European
>>>>>competition.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No it's not. I will come to CCT to experiment, if I come at all. Others
>don't >>>bother to show up, and why should they ?
>>>
>>>
>>>Right, what commercial product wants to get beat by crafty?  It's bad for
>>>marketing to loose to the likes of Zappa and bodo.  Then people like Vincent
>and >>GCP couldn't show up here slamming the professor.
>>>
>>
>>Make up your mind: Is crafty the menace that keeps everyone important from CCT
>
>
>Crafty is not the only "menace".  There are some very capable amatuer projects,
>like Zappa, Gothmog, Amateur, Searcher, and Ferret (though it has not
>participated recently).  How would Chessbase marketing like it if it's products
>finished behind any of these?
>I think you are the exception here.  You don't seem to care three straws one
>way or the other, although it is safer for you when you submit your entry as
>"experimental".
>:)
>
>
>>or is CCT the all-inclusive tournament ?
>
>
>More can participate because there are no economic barriers to participation.
>
>
>>
>>I don't understand why I should be scared of meeting crafty at CCT, but not
>>scared of meeting it at WCCC.
>
>
>The chances of crafty participating in ECCC are slim.
>
>
>>Crafty's been there in previous WCCC most of the time.
>
>
>But it was not massively scalable in those events.  Now it is.

Crafty has _never_ played in a WCCC (open hardware) event.  It has played in 3
different WMCCC events but the hardware was originally limited to 1 cpu although
I guess this has been eliminated in recent WMCCC events.  They also used to have
a rule that the hardware had to be "on site" as opposed to remote login, but
again only for WMCCC events.  Nobody ever demanded I show up with a Cray C90 at
a WCCC event.  :)


>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>:)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>It's not a major event.
>>>
>>>
>>>Nonesense.  50 programs is a huge event.  Much bigger than some expensive,
>>>exclusive, back-yard barbecue at the ICGA.
>>>
>>
>>There are thousands of players at Biel, only a dozen at Wijk an Zee. So what ?
>>When was the last time Kasparov, Polgar, Anand played in Biel ?
>
>
>Programs don't have egos, neither are they affected by noise, rounds-per-day,
>or any other human factor.
>The view you are putting forward only serves to make what is supposed to be a
>world event into an elitist event with economic barriers erected to stifle
>participation from strong amatuer projects, ensuring that commercial interests
>get the most out of their marketing investment.
>
>>
>>
>>>No.  If they thought they could win, they would show up.  Remember?  ;)
>>>
>>>Americans don't show up in Europe because it's expensive.  Commercial
>European >>projects don't show up at the FREE, no-expense CCT because they are
>chicken. >>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>CCT is a bit like Biel: crowded and noisy, with a few good players. But
>don't >>>mistake Biel for Wijk an Zee.
>>>
>>>Programs don't care how much noise there is.  Just come and play.  You can't
>>>stand it if bodo competes with you?  I thought the Championship was open to
>all? >> Oh, only those who are well-off to afford $2000 travel.
>>>
>>
>>America is not a third-world country, and the problem with your argument is
>that >it works even better for real third-world countries, i.e. that Tanzanian
>program >would be the world's best, if only its author could afford to write
>it.
>
>The writer of program X has no money to fly to Israel, though his project is a
>worthy participant.  But freely available technology exists that would allow
>all such programmers to enter the event.
>Why is this not done?  There is no excuse for it not being done.  CCT has
>proven that it can work.
>All you are offering for an explanation is elitism.
>
>
>>
>>
>>>How inclusive.
>>>
>>>:)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Which reminds me that no major chess tournament takes place in the USA
>nowadays. >>>All the major tournaments are in Europe, but I don't hear you
>saying that >>>Kaidanov and Stripunsky are the world's best.
>>>
>>>
>>>Many Nations have easy access to Europe.  America is not easy or cheap for
>>>Europeans to access.  It's simple economics.
>>>
>>
>>"Easy access" ? Is this a geographical fact I didn't know ?
>>
>>Anyway, this must be the reason your major universities Harvard, Stanford,
>Yale >etc. are intellectual backwaters without foreign students, who all go to
>>European universities. Not.
>>
>>Amir
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Amir



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