Author: Anthony Cozzie
Date: 07:17:10 05/18/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 17, 2004 at 17:48:35, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On May 17, 2004 at 15:26:58, Anthony Cozzie wrote: > >>On May 17, 2004 at 00:12:58, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On May 14, 2004 at 20:43:01, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >>> >>>>On May 14, 2004 at 20:31:25, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 14, 2004 at 18:26:54, Amir Ban wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 14, 2004 at 12:32:26, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 14, 2004 at 12:16:57, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On May 13, 2004 at 20:17:42, Russell Reagan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Not anyone can play. Only people who have several thousand dollars and two >>>>>>>weeks >>to burn can play. I don't know many people in that situation, or at >>>>>>>least if >>they are in that situation and participated, the locks would be >>>>>>>changed when >>they returned home from the trip :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>FYI, travel costs and hardware are sponsored by the organisation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>No, they are not. $2000 dollars is not sponsored by the organization, neither >>>>>>>the hotel, nor the paid time off for two weeks. The entire situation is >>>>>>>calculated to discourage American participation. The physical format is >>>>>>>calculated to permit cheating, as was done with the illeagal throwing of a >>>>>>>drawn game to the eventual "winner". It is a corrupt establishment designed to >>>>>>>cater to European interests, and to snub Americans. >>>>>>>It is therefore an irrelevant contest, just like the FIDE World Championship is >>>>>>>completely irrelevant. >>>>>>>:) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>CCT is now the venue for true WORLD comptetition, instead of just European >>>>>>>competition. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>No it's not. I will come to CCT to experiment, if I come at all. Others don't >>>>>>bother to show up, and why should they ? It's not a major event. >>>>>> >>>>>>CCT is a bit like Biel: crowded and noisy, with a few good players. But don't >>>>>>mistake Biel for Wijk an Zee. >>>>>> >>>>>>Which reminds me that no major chess tournament takes place in the USA nowadays. >>>>>>All the major tournaments are in Europe, but I don't hear you saying that >>>>>>Kaidanov and Stripunsky are the world's best. >>>>>> >>>>>>Amir >>>>> >>>>>Quite a few top chess events have been held in the U.S. - '95 Kasparov-Anand, >>>>>'89 or so Kasparov-Karpov, '99 FIDE knockouts, three man-machine championships. >>>>> >>>>>But no WCCCs. >>>>> >>>>>Ok it's probably just a coincidence - but IMO the complaints are understandable. >>>>> >>>>>Vas >>>> >>>>The complaints are understandable. Heck, *I* have a problem with it :) But the >>>>people claiming CCT has superceded the WCCC are simply living in a dream world . >>>>. . >>>> >>>>anthony >>> >>> >>>CCT is going (note is going, not already has) to accomplish two things: >>> >>>1. encourage participation from around the world, not just from around Europe. >>> >>>2. Eventually make the WCCC irrelevant. We already have 3x the participants. >>>We've had most commercial programs in the events. >>> >>>The problem is the internet vs international travel. A 2-3 day game conference >>>would be nice, maybe with the last 2-3 rounds of the event played in the >>>evenings. But two weeks is simply beyond ridiculous with the idea of >>>encouraging _new_ participants. If my first tournament had involved >>>international travel for two weeks, I certainly would not have had a first >>>tournament. A commercial chess programmer might be able to make that as it is a >>>primary mission for his company. Locals might make it. But the cost is a real >>>issue. >>> >>>That is where the ICCA is completely missing the boat. They are supposed to be >>>encouraging development of computer chess programs. Just read the charter. >>>They are failing in at least one regard, for that essential mission (that is >>>_the_ reason we originally formed the ICCA, regardless of what they might >>>suggest. _I_ was actually there when we agreed to form it.) Somehow that got >>>lost in the shuffle. It started in the dirty days of the commercial section of >>>the WMCCC and has led the ICCA farther astray from its primary _mission_. >>> >>>But that's OK. CCT will likely continue to do better and better. And actually >>>have an international collection of participants, both experienced and new >>>participants as well... >>> >>>At a price that beginners, newcomers and students can afford. That is a big key >>>issue... >>> >>>There was great discussion when we started adding a 5th round to ACM events. >>>Because it makes it harder and harder to take off to participate. Now we are at >>>two weeks. By 2020 it will be a full-time year-round job it would seem... >>> >>>You should _first_ decide who you are trying to attract, then define the event >>>that will do this. Not first worry about how many rounds and how to occupy two >>>weeks, and then see who will come... If the WCCC had started at 2 weeks, it >>>would not have survived the first event. Where this "idea" came from is beyond >>>me. At least through 1989 they were 5 rounds period. And getting to them was >>>not a problem due to time off, and by bouncing between NA and Europe every 6 >>>years there was a WCCC "on continent" if you could not travel internationally >>>due to cost. >>> >>>But those were the days when the programmers were actually the people making the >>>decisions and running the organization. It's drifted far away from that... >> >>I completely agree with the length issue. There are simply too many rounds in >>the current format. At WCCC03 I thought the top programs all won their last 5 >>games in a row anyway. If the system is automated, it is easily possible to >>play 2 games per day (all you have to do is watch). Perhaps a time control of >>90 minutes for the first 40 moves plus 90 minutes for the rest of the game. So a >>1/2/1/2/1 format would give 7 rounds (about the right length, I think) in 5 >>days. That would also give some time for sightseeing or other stuff. > >For reasons only they know, the ICGA is _not_ going to go to an automated >format, where everybody has to have support for a chess server, and they set up >a local FICS server in the tournament hall. > >Why this can't be done is beyond me since it is _exactly_ what we do in the CCT >events. Another example of "dinosaurian thinking" as this has been easy to do >for at least 10+ years. I started working with the old xboard, and with Tim >Mann, to add features so that the current protocol idea was started and now is >more than adequate to play games on a server, as many of us prove daily. > >It can be done. Why they refuse to do it and let all the nonsensical TD >decisions and player interference and other things detract from the event is >beyond any sane explanation. So let's just call it insanity and leave it there. > :) I just checked, and the WCCC is closer to 1 week than two. In fact, if they just chopped the last 4 rounds/2 days I would say they had a perfect schedule. anthony
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